HomeMy WebLinkAbout1976-04-06 Regular Meeting CITY OF GRAPEVINE, TEXAS
AGENDA
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
TUESDAY, APRIL 6, 1976 AT 7:30 P. M.
COUNCIL CHAMBERS - 413 MAIN STREET
I. CALL TO ORDER
II. INVOCATION: Willis Pirkle
� III. CITIZENS REQUEST AND/OR MISCELLANEOUS REPORTS AND DISCUSSIONS
City Council to review the consideration of a personnel
decision made by the City Manager.
IV. CONSIDERATION OF THE MINUTES (March 16, 23, & 24, 1976)
V. OLD BUSINESS
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. City Council to canvass the ballots of the 1976
General City Officers Election.
B. City Council to consider an ordinance to revise
the Salary Classification Plan of city employees. I
C. City Council to consider an agreement authorizing
the Grapevine Little League Association to operate
the concession stand at Oak Grove Park baseball
field. City Council also to consider summer
recreational activities.
D. City Council to consider a Resolution by the
Mayor' s Council to establish a county wide
Utility Rate Study Committee.
E. City Council to consider a Resolution by the
Mayor ' s Council regarding the continuation of
the Revenue Sharing Program.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
;
IN ACCORDANCE WITH ARTICLE 6252-17, V.A.T.C.S. , AS AMENDED
BY CHAPTER 227, ACTS OF THE 61ST LEGISLATURE, REGULAR SESSION,
THE REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING AGENDA WAS PREPARED AND
POSTED ON THIS THE 2ND DAY OF APRIL, 1976 AT 1:15 P.M.
City Secre r
CITY OF GRAPEVINE, TEXAS
EMERGENCY AGENDA TTEM
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEE'T'ING
TUESDAY, APRIL 6, 1976 AT 7: 3p P. M.
CtaUNCIL CHAMBERS - 413 MAIN STREET
VI. NEW BUSINESS
F. City Council �o consider a resolution calling
far a runaff General City Electian af City
O�ficers for:
Council Place 3
� Cauncil Place 5
This emergency agenda item has been glaced an the City
Counci7, Agenda as immed ia�.e action is necessary to insure
the health, safety, and general welfare af the citizens af
Grapevine, Texas .
IN ACC4RDANCE WITH ARTICLE 6252-1'7 V.A,T.C.S. , AS AP+TENDED BY
CHAPTER 227, ACTS OF THE 61ST LEGISLATURE, REGULAR SESSION
1969, Z'HIS EMERGENCY CITY COUNCIL AGENDA WAS PREPARED AND
POSTED ON THIS THE 5TH DAY OF APRIL, 1976 AT 11: 30 A.M.
CITY S CRETA
:)
STATE OF TEJCAS � %
COUNTY OF T.ARRANT �
CITY OF GRAPEVINE �
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The City Cauncil of the City of Gxapevine, Texas convened in
regulaz session at 7:35 P.M. on this the 6th day af April,
19�b with the following members present to-wit:
William D. 2ate Mayar
Doil Dalton Councilman
Thelma Conine Counci3woman
Larry Oliver Councilman
Wi12is Pirkle Counciiman
Bob Murphy Councilman
Charles Dunn Cauncilman
con�tituting a quorum, with
Floy Ezell Ca.ty Manager
Jim Hancock � Assistant City Manager
Shirley Armstrong City Secretary
John Boyle City Attorney
Mayor Tate called the meeting �Go ordex. 2he invpcation was
given by the Rev. Montgomery.
Mayor Tate welcamed the visitors and e,�cplained that there was
an item or two on the agenda that must be attended to before
the Counci.l cota2d proceed with the Pub3ic Hearing.
The fizst arder of business was for the City Cauncil to canvass
the ballots of the 1976 General City Officers Election. 2he
City Secretary then. provided the Council members with copies of
the E].ection Tally Sheets for their approval. Mayor Tate then
read the results of the Ci�y Officers Election as follows:
Council Place 3
Ann Carlson 275
WiZlis Fa.rk2e 292
Mike Davis (write-in) 219
Thelma Conine (write-in) 1
Council Place 4
Davi.d Florence 45b
R.E. "Bab" Murphy 315
Council Place 5
Charles Gideon 395
Aulton Mullendore 19Q
Donald Kaker 194
Thelma Conine {write-in} 23
Mayor Tate then stated that a motion was in order. Cauncilman
Dunn made a motion to certify the tabulation of the votes. 2he
motian was seconded by Co�nciltnan 4liver and prevai.led by the
following vote:
Ayes: Tate, Conine, Murphy, Oliver, Dalton, Pirkle and Uunn
Noes: None
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Mayar Tate then stated that the next order af business
was to �et a date for �he runoff election betv+reen Willis
Pirkle and Ann Carlsan in Place 3 and Charles Gideon and
Donald Kaker in Place 5. The Mayor then asked the City
Manager if he had any recommendations. The City Manager
stated that a resolution had been prepared for the City
Council to call an election to be held between 30 and 45
days following the regular election. The City Secrefiary
then read the zesolutian. Mayor Tate asked the City
Manager if he had a recommended date for the runaff
election. The City Manager acknowledged that Saturday,
May 15th wouid give sufficient time ta camply with
our City Charter and state laws pertaining to advertising
i and absentee vating. The Gi.ty Secretary then stated
� that that date would be incorporated in Resolution #'7_6,�,�,10.
Mayor Tate �tated that if there was no discussion a motian
was in arder. Councilman Pirkle made a motion to adopt
the resolution. The motian was seconded by Councilman
Dalton and prevai2ed by the fal2owing vote:
Ayes: Tate, Canine, Oliver, Murphy, Pirk].e, Dalton & Dunn.
Nayes: None
Mayar Tate stated that Dava.d Flarence had been certified
as a Cauncilman in Place 4 and asked if the City Manager
wauld administer the Oath of Office. The City Manager
asked Mr. Florence to come forward and then recited the
Oath of Office. Councilman Rlorence then took his
respecta.ve seat on the Council. Mayor Ta�te and other
�embers of the Council congratula�ted Councilman Florence.
Mayor Tate theri thanked Caunci2man Murphy for his
dedicated serva.ce to the city and his contributian ta �,
the community for the past two years. '
The next order of business was for the City Council to re-
view the cansideration af a personnel decisian made by �
the City Manager. Because of the seriousness of this
item a court reporter was present. A copy of that repart
is attached hereto and made a part hereof to the minutes
of the City Counci.l meeting af April E>, 197b. Mayor Tate
asked the City Attorney to explain the purpose of the
Public Hearing. The City Attorney stated that one
questian had arisen concezning moving the Public Hearing
to ano�her location because o�' the expected large crowd
in attendance. He further commented that it was his
recommendation and opinion that this not be done because
of the Charter requirements far the meeting to be held
in City Hall and also the open meeting law that certain
natice be given prior to a Public Hearing. The City
Attorney then stated that concerning the scope of the
Public Heaxing, the City Manager, under the Grapevine
City Charter, is the Chief Administrative Offi.cer of the
City and has the authority to admi.nister and supervise
a2I departments of the City. He further commented that
persuant ta this charter provision the City Manager does
have the autharity relative to the Palice Department and
in accardance with this did termir�ate the Chief of Pc►lice
an March 34th of this year. The City Attarney further
acknowl.edged that the Charter also provides in Section
402 that the hiring and termination af the Chief of
Police shall be with the approval of the Counci3. He f
also s�tated that persuant to �his provisic�n of the
Charter the matter before the Cauncil at this time is
to review the decision of the City Manager to terminate
the Chief. The City Attorney further commented that
also in accordance with that provision and with the open
meeting law, that Chief James Lilly has requested a Public
Hearing on the matter to cansider the dismissal. The
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City Attorney then presented the Council with the ora.ginal
letter from James Lilly requesting the Public Hearing. He �
further commented that the scope of the Gounc.ii1� reviews
wa� the decisian of the City Manager�s office to terminate
the Chief f rom his position. on March 30th of this year.
He further commented that the Mayor, being the Chief Presid-
ing Officer of the Council, shall set out the ru2es and
regulations by which this particular hearing sha11 be
governed. The City Attorney stated that this meeting was
to be a hearing and not a trial. He continued by saying
that it does nat entail nor encompass the rules af evidence
of a trial and wi21 not include cross examina�tiaz but it is
to be conducted in a reasonable manner to give all parties
who desi.re to be heard on the matter an apportunity to be
heard. The City A�torney further stated that after that
the Cour�ci2 wil� make �.its decision to approve or disapprove �
the decisian of the City Manager.
The Mayor then stated that a court reporter was present and
that each witness wishing to speak would be given an oath.
He further e�lained that everyane wishing ta speak �hauld
go ahead and take the oath, but that the oath did not obligate
them to speak shau2d they change their mind. He further
stated that despite the large crowd it was the Council�s
' desixe to hear everyone that wished to speak, He did ask that
each speaker stay witha.n the scope of the inquiry. He stated
' tha�t it was the intent of the council to have as fair a Public
Hearing as passible. He then acknawledged that the procedure
would be as follows: Mr. Ezell will give the reasons for Mr.
Li12y�s dismissal, The Council wi21 have an appartunity ta
question Mr. Eaell if they like; Mr. Lilly or his attorney
wil2. then have an opportunity to make a statement; those in
the audience wishing ta speak will be recogni2ed; if �he
speaker has any que5ti.ons he should address it to the Council,
j: not to Mr. Lilly or any other person; after the Public Hearing
is closed, the Council will debate the issue and render a
decision. The Mayar then asked if there were any questians.
Mr. Bill Butcher, attorney for Mr. Lilly asked if the Council
would sit as an appea3 board after the matter is intraduced
for your decision concerning the dismissal. The mayor then
addressed the City Attorney and asked what the procedure was
unde= the City Charter. The City Attorney answered that the
Council would review the decision af the city manager and all
other testiznony before it. The matter wil.l then be closed ta
the floor and the Council�s decision will. be strictly either
ta approve or disapprove the decis�.on. Mr. Butcher then
stated that the way he understaod it; the Council would de-
cide whether or not they wanted to apgrove or disapprove the
decision by Mr. Ezell. Mr, Butcher further stated that M�.
Lilly has fa.led, with Mr. Ezell, a request far an appeal hear-
ing before the board o�' appeal. The City Attorney stated that
this would be the sole oppoxtunity under the charter and the
orda.nances to be heard in regard �o this decision and any
other matter in relation ta the decision. Mr. Butcher then
asked for a capy af the charges that were to be read against
Mr. Lilly. The City A�torney stated that Mr. Ezell would
make his statement to the Council shortly. The City Secretary
then swore in those present that wished to make a statement.
Mr. F3oy Ezell, City Manager then made the following statement:
"Mr. Mayor and members of the City Council, as
previously stated by the City Attorney, the pur-
pose of the agenda item that yau are to cansider
is a reva.ew of my decisian to terminate Mr.
Li.11y as Chief of Police of the City of Grapevine.
The Chief was termi.nated and remaved fram c�ffice
the 30th day of March, ].976. On the same date,
M�c. Bill McLain, the Assistant Chief, was naFned
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as Acting Chiefof Police and is presently
serving in that capacity. The decision
I made, and the action I took, was in
accordance with the City Charter which
sets out my duties as chief administrator
and executive officer of the city. My
decision was one that did not arise from
any single incident or from facts only
recently occuring. A decision such as
this is never easy, and it is certainly
not fair to all if done hastily, or with-
out due regard for the total service of
the official in question. Mr. Lilly has
been employed by the City in the police
department for 9 years. He has been chief
of police since F'ebruary 1969. The principle
reasons for termining Mr. Lilly are as
follows:
'nistra-
1. Lack of adequate supervision in admi
tion of his department.
2. Railure to respond to directives from my
of f ice.
3. Uncooperative attitude with the City Mana-
ger�s office and other department heads.
4. Failure to properly handle responsibilities
in municipal court and in relation to the
animal control warden.
5. Continued excessive requests for the police
department�s budget.
6. Failure to be on the job during working hours. I
7. Date and information furnished to me by a '
special committee of the City Council in
investigating the police department.
On many occasions in the past I have discussed
problems with the chief and found him to be re-
sentful of the requests relative to the operation
of the police department. It is my opinion that
the chief did not look upon me as the chief
administrative officer of the city and that he
was responsible for reporting to the city manager
as required by the City Charter. The chi:ef had
the responsibility for complaints and warrants
in municipal court prior to January lst of 1974.
It has recently come to light that approximately
1000 citations were issued with no follow-up what
so ever in terms of filing complaints or regarding
the issuance of warrants. Consequently these tickets
will be required to be dismissed. The animal control
warden was under his direct supezvision until re-
cently. Our investigation reveals almost no super-
vision was directed to this office. Consequently,
the performance in that department was extremely
substandard. The district attorney�s office has
complained about the quality of reports and in-
adequacy of cases all of which have resulted in a
poor condition ratio in the Tarrant County courts.
It appears that there may have been more emphasis
on arrests rather than making out a case that would
hold up in court. Mr. Lilly is generally not on
the job between the hours of 8:00 to 5:00 and would
tend to arrive at the office between 9 and 10 and
leave around 5. It was in my opinion that it is
in the best interest of the City of Grapevine, the
city government, and police department for me to
remove Mr. Lilly from office. If the Mayor and
Council have any questions, I will be glad to try
to answer.��
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Councilman Oliver asked the Ci,ty Manager i.f the Chief�s
hours were 8:00 A.M. ta 5:00 P.M. The City Manager
answered that they were. �ouncilrrtan Qliver asked if im- i
praper hours kept by the chief had become a pattern or i�
he was on3y accasiona2ly Iate for work. The City Manager
answered that he had been at the police department at 8:Q0
on many accasions that Mr. Lilly was not present. He
further stated that he had called on numerous occasians
and found that he had not arriued in his office. The
Mayor then asked Mr. Ezell if he had ever issued a directive
or set the working hours that the chief was supposed to
work? The City Manager answered that he had asked Mr. Lilly
to be present in the office from 8 ta 5 sa that he could
better serve c�u.r people. Councilman Dunn asked a.f Mr. Lilly
had ever given any reason for not beir�g at wark on time.
Mr. Ezel.l answered that he had heard a comment that he was
pos�ibly up some during the night. Councilman Dunn then
asked if the City Manager thought, in the supervision af
the chiefrs department, tha# he would expect this tyge of
conduct on the part of his men, The City Manager an�w�r ed
that he thought that the men would be expected to be present
on time and put in a full day�s work. Councilman Dunn asked
if it was the City Managerts opinzon that the chief pretty
well toak care of the supervisz.on of his affice, that he
expeeted his men to follow his directives. The City Manager
stated that he felt like Mr. Lilly would have expected his
men to carary out his orders, Counc�ilman Florence asked if
Mr. Lilly was made aware of these problem� or given any
warning in the past. The City Manager an,swered that many
of the prob].ems were made aware to Mr. Lil2y after the in-
vestigating cornmit�ee�s report. The City Manager further
sta�ed that Mr. Li22y ad�i�ted that some o.f these problems
did exi�t and also that he would correct these items.
Councilman Dunz� asked if each departmrent head, in accardance
-� with city operation, was respansible for knowing his job
responsibilities. The City Manager answered that that was
correct. Councilman flliver asked the City Manager to explain
why the animal contxol divisiara was no longer under the
direction af the police department. The City Manager answered
that the city had recea.ved many complaints in reference ta
dags, the way that they were being harzdled, the way they were
being turned into the Humane Saciety. It was �•his opinion that
the dog catcher was out doing other things ra►ther than patroling
the streets for dogs in vialata.on to the Gity Ordinances.
Councilman Oliver asked if �he City Manager would com�ent
further on the probZems of Municipa3 Caurt. The City Manager
answered that in 1974 the warrants were made at City Hall
rather than at the palice department. It has recently been
cal].ed to the City�s attention that there are many warrants
that have not been served, na recards as to the dispasita.on
of these warrants and what has happened ta them. Councilxnan
Qliver asked if the Chief was ultimately responsible for these
warrants. The City Manager an�wered that at that time he was.
Mayar Tate asked Mr. Ezell if we were talking abaut outstanding
warrants ar citations that were never compared. Mr. Ezell
answered tha�t we were talking about citations for which warrants
were never issued, The Maynr then asked if Mr. Ezell had any
statistics concerning this matter. Mr. Ezell answered that in
fiscal year 1974-75, 992 warrants were issued. He cantinued
� by saying that 115 warrants were served. Only 11.7% of the
warrants were collected. The revenue was $4,?31,54. In fiscal
19?5-7b the average revenue was $394.3� per month. Thru February
of 1976 we had 1.68 warrant� issued and 204 served and 121;�
collected, or $8320.24; Mayar Tate then asked the City Manager
what accounted for the �hange. Mr. Ezell explained that in
October 1975 the warranfi division was moved to City Hall u.nde=
the supervision of the Department af Revenue and a warrant
officer was appointed. Councilzrian Dalton asksd i.f the Ci.ty
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still has the �ame animal control officer that we had dur-
ing the time mentioned earliez. 2he City Manager answezed
that that particular officer resigned and that the animal
contral divisian has also been moved to City Hail under
the direction of the Revenue Department.
There were no �urther questions and t he Mayor recognized
Mr. Bill Butcher, attorney for Mr. Lilly. Mr. Butcher
commented that it was his opinion that the Couneil was not �
following the proper procedure set out in the City Charter. �
He stated that as he understaod the matter, Mr. Lilly was
notified of his dismissal, and had his badge taken from him.
He has since requested a Pub3ic Hearing before a board of
appeal�. Mr. Butcher then referred ta the Ca,ty C�de Book,
Section 1-8-7 and stated that the City Ma.nager could dismiss
the ch3.ef with the concurrence of the Council.. 2he attorney
for Mr. Lilly then asked Mrs. Conine, Councilwoman, if the
' Counci]. had caracurred with the City Manager in the dismissa3
of the chief. Councilwoman Cc�nine answered yes. The City
Attorney stated that �hat question was out of arder and that
no cross examinatian would be allowed. Mayor Tate stated
that it uras his apinian that before that decisian was made
the Council wa� entitled to hear the people of the gubli.c.
The Mayor stated that the Cou.ncil�was attempta.ng to have a
fai.r Fublic Hearing and that the City Attorney would advise
the Council and that Mr. Butcher could advise Mr. Lilly.
Mr. Butcher once again asked for a copy of the charges
against Mr. Lilly. A Ci�y employee then prepared a xercax
capy o� Mr. Ezell�s statement for Mr. Bu�cher. At this
time the Mayor retninded Mr. Butcher that this was nat a
court of law, but that he, as Maycar, was the presiding
officer. He further stated that not alI members of the i
cauncil were lawyers, and that every attempt was bei.ng made '
to conduct a reasanable and fair Public Hearing. The Mayor ; `
further stated that only one procedure was �o be followed, and
that was to decide whether or not to withstand the decision
of the City Manager in the dismissal of Mr. Lilly.
The Attorney �'or Mr. Lilly stated that the City Manager had
made some �erious charges against Mr. Li.11y and it was his
desire to question Mr. Ezell as to the basis of these charges.
Mayor Tate then stated that he and the Council had to abide
by the advise of �he Gity Attorney because he, the same as
Mr. Butcher, was an attorney, and had the right and re-
sponsibility to represent the city. The Mayar further stated
that he understood what Mr. Butcher was saying aand that he
was sympathetic with his desires ta know what the charges
a�e; but as he understood it , it was not necessary to have
charge� ta dismiss a city employee, that the reason for dis-
missal could simply be lack of confidence. The attoxney far
Mr. Lilly asked the City Council if any member had already
made up his mind to support the City Manager and dismiss the
Chief of Folice. The Mayor stated that the City Attorney had
indicated that the questi.on was aut of orde�. Mayar Tate •
gave his assurance that he had not made u.p his ma.nd, and the
Council intended to hear each citizen�s statement if it was
necessary to stay until 3:�00 in the morning. Mr, Butcher
asked when the insubordinatian or lack of confidence or the
prablerns start�d between Mr. Ezel2 and Mr. Lilly. Mr. Ezell g
answered that it was months, or possibly years ago �that it
became obvious that Mac, Lilly was r�ot comp2y.ing with the wishes
and recommendations of the City Manager. The Attorney for Mr.
Lilly asked if Mr. Li11y had ever di.recfily disabeyed any
directi.ve from: the office bf Mr. Ezell. The Mayor answered
that Mr. E�ell had already stated that he had asked Mr. Lilly
to be on the job from 8 to 5 and this has not been done. Mr.
Butcher then asked if each officer should have time and a
half aff for each hour of overtime he is required to work.
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He further asked if Mr. Ezell was not aware of the problems
confronted with a police off icer in relation to getting up
at all hours of the night to attend to cri.mina2 affenses
that he is obligated ta handle. The Mayor answered that
the City Manager has the right to tell the Chief o� Police
what he expects of him. There is aiso an assistant chief
of police in the office fram 8 to 5 and also a sergeant.
Mr. Lillyts attorney then asked what ather department heads,
`� other than Mr. Ezell, has Mr. Lilly re�used to cooperate with.
Mr. Ezell stated that he did not feel that it would be fair
to the departme�t heads to answer that que�tian. The Attorney
for Mr. Lilly stated that he demand an answer. The Mayor
reminded Mr. Butcher that this was not a court of law and
that a cross examination would not be permitted. He further
stated that the Councii did not have to permit Mr. Butcher
to continue on �his basis and that he expected to follow �he
pracedure set out by the City Attarney. The Attorney for Mr.
Lilly th�n stated that an behalf of Mr. Lilly that he was
gublically denying aZl of the charges brought against Mr,
Lilly. Mr. Butcher then asked the entzre Gity Council if
there was anythir� that Mz. Lilly cauld say that wauZd cause
� this council not to follow the zecammendations of the City
� Manager. The Mayor stated that he did know that Mr. Eaell
(, was not in complete ignorance �f the policies and procedures
in the police department. He further stated that he was not
gresent when Mr. Lilly was dismissed hut that he is aware of
many problem� that exist in the police department. Mr. Butcher
then asked if it was wrong far a chief of police who has the
reputation af Mr. Lilly to ask for funds with which to improve
the department. The Mayor answered that he did not feel that
it was wrang. , but that each departrnent head has an obligation
to be conservative and to administer to hi� department
efficient3y and to �ave the tax dallar whenever passible.
The Ma�or then quoted same figures from the Council of Govern-
ments stating that a �pulatian of 94Q� peapie was shawn for
Grapevine and that the report shows that over 30% of the tax
dollars has been spent for police pratectian. The Mayor
continued ta read statistics which pointed out that the City
of Grapevine is very much above any other city in relation to
the amount of tasc dallars spent for police pzotectian. The
Mayor then stated that an the advice of the City Attorney, the
procedure set aut in the beginning of the meeting was not being
follawed, and it was his recommendatio� that rather than continu-
ing in the manner of crass examination, that Mr. Butcher or Mr.
Lilly make their statement �o that others present a.n the assembly
could have an opgortunity to be heazd. Mr. Butcher then� stated
that he thought it was a disgrace for such a charge ta be leveled
a man, re.fuse to give him the charges so that his attarney will
have a chance to Iook at them before the hearing. He further
s�ated that he could see no good reason or cause for dismissal
af a man that had given 9 years of faithful searvice to his city.
He further commented that Mr. Lilly has the right to be sub-
mitted the charges at the time af dismissal, that he shauld have
a right to present his facts, and it was his oginii�n that that
right was being denied.
The Mayor then recognized Mr. Dale Hall; 2115 Lake Crest Drive; �
Grapevine, Texas. Mr. Hall stated tha� it was his desire to
speak on behalf of the Caunail. He commented that he knew some
of the counciZ members and that it was his opinion that they
were trying to da a good job. He asked the people present in
the audi.ence ta take a responsible attitude toward what is bei.ng
dane. He fuarther cammented that he had nothing against Mr.
Lilly, but felt like the members of the council knew what they
were doing. He requested that �hose present in the chamber
refrain from laughter and clapping because a very �erious matter
was being discussed,
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Mayor Tate then recognized Mrs. Ann Carlsan who stated that
she had nothing ta say at this tirne.
The Mayor then rec�gnized Mr. Bill Boswell; 3628 Grandview
Drive; Grapevine. Mr. Boswell sgoke on behalf of Mr. L�lly.
He stated that he had left the City af Arlington to reside
in Grapevi�e because of the low crime rate here. He
stated that Mr, Lilly had his respect. He further cammented
that the good things such as taking delinquent children inta
the chief�s home were never mentioned, He ackn�wledged that �
Mr. Lilly had handled his job well considering the arnount of �'
territary that had been annexed for him to patral. He con-
cluded by saying that he did not feel praper respect wa�
being given a man that had dedicated nine years af his Zife
to the city.
', The Mayor then recognized Dr. �eonard B. Russell, 309 North
' Main; Grapevine, Texas. Dr. Russell stated that he had
walked to this meeting beeause he felt safe an the streets
of Grapevine. He stated that he had seen Mr. Lilly on pove
Road and NW Highway at 3:Q0 A.M. attempting to settle a
child 'abuse case. He has also been �een patrolling the
s�reets at 5:�4 i� the morning. He wanted ta make �he Council
aware of a petition that he was circulating that contained
some 300 signatures in favor of reinstating Chie� Lilly.
He further commented that he felt the City of Grapevine had
ane af the finest police departments in the area because of
Mr. Lilly. He further stated that his sons, age i7 and 2�
years highly respected the police of�icers of Grapevine.
He concluded by saying that afficers reflect their chief,
and that he hoped and prayed the council would reconsider. I
The Mayor then recognized Mr. Roger Cloud; 520 Bluebonnet;
Grapevine, Texas. Mr. Cloud stated that he wauld like to
complement the Grapevine Police Departme�t for the genera� �
pratection that the citizens received. Ne related an in-
cident that happened in June, 1914. {For details of Mr.
Cloud�s statement, please see the court report attached here-
to arid made a part hereof.}
Mr. Flayd Deacon; 105 Crass Creek Drive; Grapevine, was then
recognized by Mayor Ta.te. Mr. Deacon stated that it was
regrettable to have to have a meeting of this nature, but that
it was aiso good that a gerson could express his beliefs.
He continued by saying that he respectably requested the
Council to reduce the budget of the Po2ice Department. He
further commented that �hose figures alone were enough in
his opznion to dismiss Mr. Lilly. He further stated that
he felt the council should har�or Mr. Ezell�s statements.
The Mayor then recognized Mr. Andy':Anderson; 302 Main,
Grapevine. Mr. Anderson �tated that he was in attendance
in defense of the Pali.ce Chief. He further commented that
he had nothing but the be�t palice protection. He stated
that if there was any wrang doing by any city employee, it
was not because of James Lilly.
Peggy Flesher; 3059 Mustang, #1038, Grapevine, Texa� was
then recognized. Mrs. Flesher stated that she had called
as early as 7:45 and been able ta find Mr. La.11y in his �
office. She commented that �he Grapevine Police Department
does not discriminate in that it will prosecute anyone if
necessary. She further commented that she believed in
James Lilly.
� t�
The next speaker wa.s l�z. Conner Lam. He stated that as a ta►�c-
payer and a citizen tha►t he objected to the manner in which
this �neeting was being held. He stated to the Council that
� they owed Mr. Li11y the honor and respect to ask question� and
get an answer. He further comznented that if �he City Council
� thought the Police Depaactment budget was too high, then they
�houl.d say so. If the charge was a.nsubordination, the chief
should have an oppartunity to speal� in his owrx behalf. He
further commented that a man�s future was at stake. He
stated that he did not think it was fair not to all.ow Mr.
'� Lilly�s attorney to cro�s examine Mr. Ezell. He concluded
� that it was his Qpinion that if a fair hearing cauld not be
conducted, one should not be conducted at all.
The next speaker was Mr. Billy Stewart. Ma:. Stewazt commented
that Mr. Li11y was a paliceman when he was a kid, He fur�her
stated that Mr. Lilly had gotten him into law enfarcement and
that he had great respect for a,ri honest man.
At this point Mayor Tate suggested that a arecess be called so
that he could ga into conference with the City Attorney to dis-
� cuss the procedure �"or the remainder of the meeting. The time
� of recess was 9;55 P.M.
i After the meeting reconvened, the next speaker was Mr. Bi11
� Shirley; 1358 Tipperary, Grapevine. Mr. Shirl.ey stated that he
was embarassed for the council in that the council chambers
resembled a kangaroo court. He continued by stating �hat he
had received excel ent
1 lice covera e and felt like G�a evine
9
F° P
had a first rate police department. He commented that he felt
that James Lilly was the be�t police chief the City of Grapevine
had ever had. He concluded by commenting that some of the
charges seemed very evasive,
The next speaker was Alice Grosenbeck. Mrs. Grasenbeck simply
stated that she wished �o thank Mr. Li].ly and his staff far
their ef�'arts in handling dope prc�blems i.n �the Grapevine area.
The Mayar then recognized Mr. George Metrellis. He commented
that Mr. Lilly had lost a dignity that could never be regained.
He stated that when he came to Grapevine Chief Lilly was the
anly member of the city staff that wel,comeci him ta the community.
He further commented that he felt politics could nat enter intr�
law enforcement.
Mr. Butcher, attorney for Mr. James Lilly, then introduced Mr.
Lilly to make a statement. Mr. Lil1y began by stating that he
had been the Chief af Palice for nine years. He continued by
stating that he had worked very clasely with Mr. Floy Ezell
and have never been disrespectful to him in any way, fc►rm or
fashion. Addressing Mr. Ezell, he stated that he had never
been give�n a directive that he had not carried out to the bes�
of his ability. He fur�her commented that the.�onl.y reason he
asked for a higher budget was not for himself, but for the
peop2e of this community. He stated that it was his belief
that he had always had the betterment af the community in mind.
Therefore, he commented, I respectively request to be reinstated �
as yaur chief of police.
Councilman Flarence asked Mr. Li2iy if after the action that had
been taken, could he woxk with Mr. Ezel], on a daily ba�is if
reinstated, Mr, Lilly answered yes.
�
�
�
�
14
Mr. Butcher then offered a proposal to the Council as
follows:
(1. ) That this meeting be continued for 30 to
40 days or whatever time period necessary.
(2. ) Two disinterested persons be appointed by
Mr. Lilly, two disinter�sted citizens be appointed by
the Council and one other citizen be appointed by the
other four committee members to find the facts concerning
the charges against Mr. Lilly. �."
(3. ) That a copy of that investigation be
delivered to me so that I may have an opportunity to study
it.
(4. ) That this committee in an open Public Hearing
make their report to the City Council.
(5. ) That I be allowed to continue my interroga-
tion so that we can come to the end of the line concerning
the charges against Mr. Lilly.
(6, ) I would suggest that during this time, Mr.
James Lilly remain the Chief of Police of Grapevine and
that he be on vacation during this investigation.
There were several questions posed by the Council concerning
the proposal. A motion was then made by Mr. Oliver to close
the public hearing. The motion was seconded by Mr. Pirkle
and prevailed by the following vote:
Ayes: Tate, Conine, Florence, Dalton, Pirkle, Oliver & Dunn.
Nayes: N�ne
Councilman Dunn then stated that he had appreciated the work
done in the different departments and the work and concern of �
the citizens. I felt like, and it was the intent of the
Council to allow the citizens of Grapevine to be heard in this
matter. He continued by saying that no one is saying that all
things in the Police Department are wrong. (For details of �
Mr. Dunn's comments, please see the co y of the court report
attached hereto and made a part hereof�
Councilman Dalton then made the statement that regardless of
the outcome of the situation, that he would continue to serve
with dignity and honesty.
Mayor Tate then stated that he had no desire to abridge the
right of any citizen. He further commented that he could
appreciate the fact that all reasons cannot be discusse�. at
this point. He further commented that he would go along with
the proposal concerning an investigation. He further commented
that he felt further investigation was in order and that the
people have a right to know and to hear the outcome. He
further stated that he would like to think that if he was
wrong, that the situation could be made right.
Councilman Oliver made.� a motion to accept the compromise of
Mr. Butcher and a citizen�s committee be appointed, two
members by Mr. Lilly, two members by the Council, and a
fifth member by the other four committee members for the
purpose of conducting an investigation. Councilman Dunn
seconded the motion. Mayor Tate then asked if there was
further discussion. Councilman Florence asked if that motion
needed to include that the City Attorney and Mr. Lilly�s
attorney be allowed to work out the details. Mayor Tate
asked if Councilman Oliver wished to amend his motion. Mr.
Oliver amended his motion to include that the attorneys
negotiate the details. The amendment was seconded by
� Councilman Dunn and prevailed by the following vote:
Ayes: Tate, Conine, Florence, Oliver, Dalton, Pirkle & Dunn.
Nayes: None
� r
Considering the late hour, Councilman Pirkle made a motion
to table the remainder of the agenda items. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Oliver and all present voted aye.
Councilman Oliver then made a motion to adjouxn the meeting.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Dalton and all present
voted aye.
The meeting adjourned at 11: 10 P.M.
�
PASSED AND APPROVED this the _�r7 yi da of , 1976.
_.:z1��
�,�� �'"
, �. �
Mayor
ATTEST:
City Secre ry
�„
�:
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EXHIBIT "A" TO THE MINUTES OF APRIL 6, 1976
MEETING OF THE
CITY COUNCIL
GRAPEVINE, TEXAS
REPORTER: Lynnell E. Brooks
DATE: April 6, 1976
1
Be
it remembered that on the 6th day of April, A.D.
2
1976, the
above entitled matter came on for hearing before
3
the Honorable City Council of Grapevine, Texas, in the City
4
Council chambers of the City Mall in the City of Grapevine,
5
County of
Tarrant, state of Texas, at 7:30 o'clock P.M.,
6
whereupon
proceedings ensued as hereinafter shown.
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A P
FOR THE CITY OF GRAPEVINEt
William D. Tate
Doil E. Dalton
Floy Ezell
John Boyle
Shirley Armstrong
Jades L. Hancock
Thelma F. Conine
David Florence
Larry Oliver
Willis Pirkle
Charles Dunn
FOR JAMES LILLY:
Bill Butcher
E A R A N C E S
Mayor
Mayor Pro -tem
City Manager
City Attorney
City Secretary
Councilman
Councilman
Councilman
Councilman
Councilman
Councilman
PAGE
56
57
58
64
67
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82
82
3A.
1
w�
2
PIA14F.
3
Dale Hall
4
ANN CARLSON
5
BILL BOSWELL
6
LEONARD B. RUSSELL
7
ROGER CLOUD
8
FLOYD DEACON
9
ANDY ANDERSON
10
PEGGY FLETCHER
11
COINER LAM
12
BILLY STEWARD
13
OLE NEYSTEL
14
DEBORAH KEY
15
BILL SHIRLEY
16
ALICE HOLSOMBACK
17
GEORGE PETRELIS
18
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25
PAGE
56
57
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82
3A.
I
1 P R 0 C E E - D I N G S
2
3 PAYOR TATE: Itll ask the City Attorney to
J
4 open the public hearing.
511 MR. BOYLE: Mr. Mayor and members of the Counci
6 one question (lid arise relative to the hearing,, and that
7 is the matter of the Possibility due to the crowd or
8 the overflow nature of it, that the meeting be moved
9 to another location. It is my recommendation and my
10 opinion that this not be done because of the charter
11 requirement for the meeting to be held here and also
12 for the open meeting law that requires it to be --
13 a certain notice to be given of the public hearing.
14 So in regard to that, it is my opinion that the law
15 would require that the meeting be held here at the
16 city Hall tonight in regard to this hearing. Concerning
17 the scope of the hearing, the City Manager, under the
18 Grapevine- City Charter, is the chief administrative
19 officer of the city that has the authority to administer
20 and supervise all of the departments of the city.
21
Pursuant
to this Charter provision,
the City Manager
22
does have
the authority relative to
the Police Depart -
23
ment, and
it is my understanding, in
accordance with
24
this, did
terminate the Chief of Police
from his
25
position
on March 30th of this year.
The Charter also
5
1
provides in Section 402, that the hiring and the termina-
2
tion of the Chief of Police shall be with the approval
3
of the council.
Pursuant to this provision of the
4
charter, the matter before the council tonight is to
5
review the decision of the City Manater to terminate
6
the Chief. Also in accordance with that provision, and
7
in accordance with the open meeting law, the Chief, James
8
E. Lilly, has requested a public hearing on the Natter
9
to consider the dismissal, and I place before you the
10
original of the letter signed by James Lilly requesting
11
a public hearing. The scope of the council's review
12
tonight is the decision of the City Manager's office,
13
the City Manager, to terminate the Chief from his
14
position on March the 30th of thisear. The Mayor,
ayor,
15
being the chief presiding officer of the council, shall
16
set out the rules and regulations by which this particu-
17
lar hearingshall be governed. This is a hearing, and
18
it's not a trial; does not entail and does not encompass
19
the rules of evidence of a trial and does not encompass
20
and include cross-examination, but it is to be conducted
21
in a fair and reasonable manner to give all parties
22
who desire to be heard on the matter an opportunity to
23
be heard. And after that, then, the council rmake.s its
24
decision, and the scope of its decision is to approve
25
or disapprove the dicision of the City Manager.
I
1
MAYOR TATE: Thank you, 11r. City Attorney,
2
We do
have a Court Reporter present. Each witness that
3
would
like to speak will be given an oath very shortly,
4
and anyone
that thinks they may want to speak should go
5
ahead
and take that oath. It does not mean that you
6
later
have to speak. You can change your mind. There
7
may be
some that have not been sworn that will come in
8
later
or change their mind and want to be heard, and we
9
will
try to take care of that. We have a lot of people
10
here.
We're going to try to listen to everyone that
11
wants
to speak. Ile hope you will keep it within the
12
scope
of the inquiry, and we hope you will be reasonable
13
in the
time in which you take to speak. We have a lot
U1 of people, and we hope to hear all those that want
15 to speak. We want to attempt to have as fair and public
16 a hearing as is possible. The procedure is going to be
17 this the City Manager is going to give the reasons
18 why Mr. Lilly was dismissed, and the Council will have an
19 opportunity to question Mr. Ezell if they would like.
20 Mr. Lilly, if he would like, at that time will be able
21 to make a statement, or his attorney, after which time
22 any members present, and we have a list of those that
23 would like to speak* will be recognized in order of the
9§1 cards that have been turned to me. And after those
gat people have spoken -- and if any of those people have
1
a question, they should address it to the cDuncil and
2
not to :fir. Lilly or any other person, and the council
3
will try to ,answer it at that time or later in the
4
proceedings. After the public hearing is closed, then
5
the council will debate the issue and will render a
6
decision. Do we have anyone that has any questions?
7
1R. BUTCHER: Yes, sir.
8
MAYOR TATE: Will you please identify Yourself,
9
sir?
10
MR. BUTCHER: ?4r. Mayor, I'm Bill Butcher, a
11
practicing attorney, 6515 East Lancaster, Fort Worth,
12
and I represent James Lilly. And I would like to know
13
at this time if this council is doing to sit as an
14
appeal board after this matter is introduced to you for
15
your decision concerning the dismissal by Mr. Ezell?
16
MAYOR TATE: We'll address the procedure
17
to the City Attorney under the charter, what the
18
requirements of the council are.
19
MR. BOYLE: The council will review the de- �
20
cision of the City Manager and all other testimony before
21
it. And then the matter is closed to the floor, and then
22
the cauncil's decision will be strictly either to approve
23
or disapprove his decision. And that's the entire scope
24
of the hearing. -
25
MR. BUTCHER: Well, that's what I wanted to
1
have on the record. As S understand it, tonight the
2
council first is to decide whether they want to approve
3
or disapprove the decision by Mr. Ezell. But at the
4
same time, Mr. Lilly has filed with Mr. Ezell a request
5
for an appeal hearing before the Board of Appeals. Now,
6
if they're going to sit in unison tonight as the council
7
to approve it or disapprove it and the Appeal ppeal IIoard.,
8
that's what I want to know.
9
MR. BOYLE: This will be the sole opportunity
10
under the Charter and the ordinances to be heard, so
11
they have an opportunity to he heard both in regards
12
to this decision and any other matters in relation to
13
the decision that he cares to bring before the council.
14
MR. BUTCIIrR: tray I have a copy of the charges
15
that are to be read against Mr. Lilly?
16
MR. BOYLE: Mr. Ezell will give his reasons
17
and make his statement to the council shortly is my
18
understanding.
19
MR. BUTCHER: You don't have a copy that I
20
as his attorney may have to examine?
21
MR. BOYLE: Not at this time.
22
MR, BUTCHER: I would ask the council and
23
the attorney to furnish me a copy of the charges to
24
be filed at this hearing against James Lilly.
25
?:R. BOYLE: There is going to be no charges
1
filed, and Mr. Ezell is going to make his report.
2
MAYOR TATE: If there's no further questions,
3
we'll declare open the public hearing and ask the City
4
Secretary to swear any .witnesses who would like to
5
speak or give testimony during the public hearing.
6
D'S. ARMSTRONG: '4r. Ezell, would you please
7
stand, please sir?
8
MAYOR TATE: Pardon me. All witnesses, every -
9
one else just raise your hand where you are at. I wonder
10
if we have anyone in the hails that would like to speak?
11
MS. AMNISTRONG: If possible, we'd like to do
12
this only once, but we want to make sure that everyone
13
14
that makes a statement is sworn in. So if they could
in
come --
15
MAYOR TATE: If anyone in the halls would
16
like to speak, at least let them come in for a short
17
while.
18
MS. ARMSTRONG: Those of you wishing to
19
make a statement, please raise your right hand.
20
21
(Thereupon, the witnesses were
sworn by the City Secretary,
22
after which time proceedings
continued as follows, to -wit.)
23
24
25
I
1 MAYOR TATE: Mr, Ezell, you may proceed,
MR. EZELL: Mr, Mayor and members of the
3 City Council, as previously stated by the City Attorney,
4 the purpose of the agenda item that you are to consider
5 is a review of my decision to terminate Mr. Lilly as
6 Chief of Police for the City of Grapevine. The Chief
7 was terminated and removed from office on the 30th day
8 of March, 1976. On the same date, Mr, Bill McLane, the
9 Assistant Chief, was appointed as acting Chief of
10 Police and is currently serving in that capacity, The
11 decision I made and the action I took was in accordance
with the City Charter that sets out my duties as chief
J
1101 administrative and executive officer of the city.
HI my decision was one that did not arise from any single
nat incident or from facts only recently occurring. A
16 decision such as this is never easy and is certainly
17 not fair to all if done hastily or without due regard of
18 the total service of the official in question. Mr. Lilly
19 has been employed by the city and the Police Department
20 for nine years and has been Chief of Police since
21 February of '69. The principal reasons for terminating
22 Mr. Lilly are as follows: lack of adequate supervision
23 and administration of his department; failure to respond
24 to directives from my office; generally uncooperative
25 attitude with the City Manager's office and other
1 department heads= failure to properly handle responsibllit
2 in Municipal Court in relation to the Animal Control
3 Wardenf continued excessive requests for the Police
4 Department's budgetal failure to be on the job during
5 working hours. Data and information furnished to me by
6 a special committee of the City Council that investigated
7 the Police Department, On many occasions in the past,
8 I have discussed problems with the Chief and found him
9 to be resentful of requests relative to the operation
10 of the Police Department. It is ray opinion that the
11 Chief did not look upon me as the chief administrative
12 officer or -- of the city,and that he was responsible
13 for reporting to the City manager as required by the
14 City Charter. The Chief had the responsibility for
15 complaints and warrants in Municipal Courts prior to
16 January 1st of 1974. It has recently come to light
17 that approximately one thousand citations were issued
18 with no follow-up whatsoever in terms of filing complaints
19 or regarding the issuance of warrants. Consequently,
2011 these tickets will be required to be dismissed. The
®I Animal Control Warden i' • direct supervision
22 until recently. Our investigation reveals almost no
23 supervision was directed to this office, and consequently,
24 the performance in that department was extremely sub -
25 standard. The District Attorney's office has complained
1 about the quality of reports and the inadequacy of man),
2 of the cases all of which have resulted in apo
or or con-
3 viction ratio in the Tarrant County Courts. It appears
4 there may have been an overemphasis on making arrests
5 rather than the making of a case that will hold up in
6 court. Mr. Lilly was generally on the job between the
7 hours of 8:00 to 5:oof was generally -- excuse me.
8 Mr. Lilly was generally not on the job between the
9 hours of 8:00 to 5:00 and would tend to arrive at the
10 office between 9:00 and 10:00 and leave around 5:00.
11 It was, and is ray opinion that it is in the best
12 interests of the City of Grapevine, the city government
13 and the Police Department for me to remove Mr. Lilly
14 from office. If the Mayor and Council have any questions
15 I will be glad to try to answer,
16 MAYOR TATE: Questions are in order from the
18
MR.
OLIVER: Mr.
Ezell, one question. You
19
were speaking
of the Chief
not being on the job. His
20
hours are 8:00
to 5:00, is
that correct?
21
22 MR. OLIVER: Has this been an occasional thing
23 or has it been pretty much of a pattern during a long
24 period of time or a short period of time or what?
25 MR, EZELL: Well, I have been at the Police
I
Department in the morning on several mornings and several
2
occaAsions, and M. Lilly was not there at 8:00 o'clock
3
or even 8:30. I called down, and he had not arrived at
4
his office.
5
MR. OLIVER: bo you suppose that was because
6
he was doing something else or that he was just not
7
there?
8
MR. EZELL: I can't answer that. I don't know.
9
MR. OLIVER: What about leaving work early?
10
MR. EZELL: Well, I have gone by in the after -
11
noons, and Mr. Lilly would have been gone from the
12
office, was not there. Z have called down before at
13
the time of office hours, and he was not there.
14
MAYOR TATE: Air. Ezell, did you ever issue
15
a directive or set the working hours that the Chief was
16
supposed to work?
17
MR. EZELL: Yes, 2 did. I slid ask Mr. Lilly
18
to be in the office at 8:00 o'clock and stay there until
19
5:00 so that he would be able to give better service to
20
our people.
21
MR. DUNN: Mr. Ezell, did he give any reasons
22
for his not being at the office voluntarily to you?
23
MR, EZELL: No, I have heard comments that
24
maybe he was up some during the night.
25
MR, DUNINt Do you think in the supervision of
1 his department, that he would have accepted this kind of
2 attendance on the part of his men?
3 MR. EZELL: Well, I wouldn't have thought
4 that he would have. We expect people to be at their
5 office on time and put in their full time during the day.
6 MR, DUNN: Is it your opinion that he pretty
7 well took care of the supervision of his office in that
8 he expected his men to follow his directives, follow his
9 orders, once they were made, without questioning this
10 or because maybe they decided they didn't want to?
11 iso you think he would have tolerated that kind o
12 behavior?
13 MR. EZELL: No, I feel like that he would
14 have expected them to carry out his orders.
15 MAYOR TATE: I would like to ask everyone
16 to speak directly into the mike. People in the halls
17 are not able to hear.
18 MR. FLORENCE: Air. Ezell, was the chief. made
19 aware of these problems in the past? In other words,
20 was he given any warning in the past?
21 MR. EZELL: Yes, I had asked that he be in his
22 office, if you're speaking of the office hours.
23 MR. FLORENCE: No, just in general. In all
24 of those areas.
25 MR. EZELL: I know that there was an
I
1 investigation committee that was formed back in August
2 that did investigate the Activities of the Police
3 Department. And in their report, they.mentioned the
4 fact they had called these things to �;r. Lilly's
5 attention, several items to his attention, and he agreed
31 that some exist and he agreed
8 MR. DUNN: Mr. Ezell, is it a fact in adminis-
9 tering the city operations,that each department head,
10 and I believe the chief is considered a department head --
11 MR. EZELL: Yes.
12 MR. DUNN: -- is expected to know the require -
13 ments of their department, of their own job procedures
M' r expected and you would expectto follow these?
031 MR, EZELL: Yes, we would,
16 MR. OLIVER: Mr. Ezell, pursuant to the dog
17 catcher, the dog catcher is no longer under the super -
18 vision of the chief. Explanation, please.
1911 MR, EZELL: Why?
21 MR, EZELL: Well, wee had a pretty poor, as
22 I mentioned, we had a lot of complaints in reference to
23 dogs and the way they were being handled, the way they
24 were being turned in to the Humane Society* And the dog
25 catcher was not exactly out trying to catch dogs; he was
I
out doing other things at so many times he should have
2
been patrolling the streets and trying to catch dogs.
3
MR. OLIVER: Mould you care to comment
4
little further on the problems of Municipal Court?
5
MR, EZELL: No, we -- in 1974, Z believe it
6
was, we started to make the warrants here at the City
7
Hall, typing warrants and sending them to the Police
8
Department for their execution. Previous to that time,
9
the Police Department made out warrants, and we have
10
disclosed here lately.that we have quite a few warrants
11
that have not been served, or we have no record of the
12
disposition of those rants and what has happened to
13
them.
14
MR, OLIVER: Would you say the Chief is
15
ultimately the responsible person for those warrants?
16
MR, EZELL: Yes, at that time he was.
17
MAYOR TATE: Mr. Ezell, are we talking about
18
outstanding warrants or citations that were never --
19
complaints that were never prepared? Are we talking
20
about two different situations?
21
1ASR, EZELL: We re talking about citations
22
that warrants were probably not issued on. Also we're
23
talking about some warrants that were issued, that
24
were typed up and made up in this office here since
25
97 and until the office was brought up here that was.not
1 taken care of.
2 MAYOR TATE: Do you have statistics and
3 numbers to show what we're talking about specifically? -
4 MR. EZELLt T have we had in fiscal 174-175,
5 nine hundred ninety-two warrants issued. We had warrants
6 served, collected, a hundred and sixteen. That was
7
eleven point seven
percent of
these warrants. And that
8
11 average revenue or
the revenue
was four thousand seven
9 hundred and thirty-one dollars and sixty-four cents.
10 Fiscal '75-'76, the average revenue ran three hundred
11 ninety-four dollars and thirty cents per month. Through
12 February in 16, we had a hundred sixty-eight warrants
13 issued and two hundred four served and a hundred twenty -
14 one percent collection or eight thousand three hundred
15 twenty dollars and twenty-four cents.
16 MAY0R TATE: What do you account for the
18 MR. EZ.ELLt Back around in October approximate) .
19 this year, we r=oved the warrant division here under our
20 department of revenue, and we have a warrant officer
21 that works this department up here at City Hall under
22 the department of revenue. We feel like this has been
23 an improvement, a considerable improvement.
24 MAYOR TATE: So last year, the responsibility
25 for collecting warrants solely rested with the Police
2
1
department, is this correct?
2
MR, EZELL: Yes,
3
MAYOR TATE: And only eleven point seven
4
percent was collected?
5
P:R. EZELL: Yes.
6
MAYOR TATE: And this year, the responsibility
7
was moved to the Revenue nepartment at City Hall?
8
MR. EZELL: Yes,
9
MAYOR TATE: And a warrant officer was hired,
10
and he's collected a hundred and twenty-one percent?
11
MR. EZELL: Yes,
12
MAYOR TATE: Now, were there other citations
13
issued in addition to those nine hundred ninety-two
14
warrants that were never wrought before Municipal Court?
15
Is that what you're saying?
16
MR, EZELL: Yes, there was quite a few warrants,
17
quite a few citations that there is no disposition has
18
been made on.
19
MAYOR TATLE: All right. we have no record of
20
any complaint or warrant being issued.
21
MR, EZELL: No, we have no record of any
22
complaints or warrants.
23
MAYOR TATE: And what period of time was that?
24
VIR. EZELL: This was in the year from '60 --
25
around 169 up through '74.
1
1
MAYOR TATE: And who had the responsibility
2
for preparing those complaints at that time?
3
MR. EZELL: Well, at that time the tickets
4
were issued, they were put on the docket book here,
5
and they were sent to the police station for their
6
typing up the warrants and taking care of.
7
MNYOR TATE: What has been the situation since
8
174, do you k ncw?
9
MR. EZELL: Since 174, we have been trying
10
to get the white tickets up here; we enter them into
11
the docket, and we type up the warrants and also set
12
the date for the trials or for people to see our Judge.
13
MAYOR TATE: Do you know how many traffic
14
tickets we have since 174 with no warrants or complaints
15
issued?
16
MR. EZELL: I don't think I have that before
17
me, Mayor.
18
MAYOR TATE: That is now the responsibility
19
of the Municipal Court?
20
MR, EZELL: Yes, it is the responsibility of
21
the Municipal Court, that is taken care or served under
22
the Department of Revenue of the City.
23
MR. FLORENCE: Mr. Ezell, I think a key
24
question here, you mentioned that one of the reasons
25
for the dismissal was poor response or poor rapport with
1 the City 1 -tanager's office. I don't have any specific
2 question about that, but I would like you to coiment
3
on it.
4
MR. EZELL: Well, I know of several
5
occasions we would have various things to come up,
6
but which no written memos were issued or anything like
7
this, they were asked to be corrected. We have had
8
several things, for example, we have asked that the Dog
9
Catcher be informed not to be chasing the ambulance
10
or the patrol cars when they were: out on an accident
11
and various things like this. Also, Fre have had
12
problems in some of the dispatching. We have another
13
emergency department that we have had problems as far
14
as getting dispatching done. These things that we
15
have talked about that memos were not written, but
16
some of these things still exist or did exist.
17
MR. FLORENCE: Just no response. Is that
18
what you're saying?
19
MR. EZELL: (nods head affirmatively.)
20
MR. DALTON: Air. Ezell, do we have the same
21
Animal Control officer on some of these dates and times
22
that you're speaking of?
23
14R. EZELL: No, we took the animal control
24 up here under Corporation Court, under the Department
25 0£ Revenue./ The Animal Control officer resigned, and
M
1
e employed another person to take over. We moved
here
2
the supervision under our Department of Revenue
3
of the animal control.
4
MR. FLORENCE: Mr. Ezell, you mentioned
5
problems with information between the Chief of Police
6
and other department heads. Lao you have anything
7
specific on that, or is it just a general feeling you
8
have on that?
9
MR. EZELL: I think it is a general feeling,
10
and I would prefer not to mention the department heads
11
that have had problems. But I have heard, the other
12
departments have mentioned at various times the lack
4
13
of communication or the lact of cooperation with their
14
departments in various things.
15
MR. FLORENCE: Do you feel there is any
16
resentment for the Chief from the other department heads
17
as far as, maybe, your statement about his not being
18
at the office from 8:00 to 5:00? The others perhaps
19
are -- is there resentment there?
20
MR. EZELL: Oh, yes, I have heard these
21
things.
22
MR. FLORENCE,: From note than one?
23
MR. EZELL: Yes,
24
MAYOR TINE: Any further questions?
25
Mr. Ezell, do you have any facts and figures on --
9
I
statistically, on whether there's been any change in the
2
Animal Control Department since
that has been moved to
3
9
the
Revenue Department?
4
MR. EZELL: Yes, Mayor,
I do have. I have a
5
few
statistics here in reference
to the registration
6
and
pound fees. Fiscal '74 and
175, the registration
7
and
pound fees for the year was
seventy-seven dollars
8
and
fifty cents or an average of
six dollars and forty -
9
six
cents per month. Fiscal '75
- 176 through February,
10
the
registration and pound fees
had risen to two hundred
n 2 and forty-eight dollars for an average of forty-nine
12 dollars and sixty cents per month.
13 MAYOR TATE: All right. Noce, when did the
14 change in the procedure in which you were handling the
15 Animal Control Office, when did that take place?
16 MR, EZELL: In fiscal 175, beginning.
17 MR. DALTON: You say fiscal '75, Mr. Ezell.
18 For the benefit of some of those that might not under -
19 stand, would you give the dates, please?
20 MR. EZELL: Our fiscal year runs from '75
21 through -- October of '75 through September of 176 each
22 year. October -- begins in October and runs through
23 September,
24 ISR. DALTON: Right on up through September
25 11 30th is what you're saying?
W
1
MR. EZELL: Right, that's our fiscal year.
2
MAYOR TATE: Mr. Ezell, I recall that we had
3
some information from the Revenue Department or one o
4
the department heads that during one three-month period
5
in '74 when the Animal Control officer was still under
6
the Police Department, that the revenue for one three -
7
month period was only a dollar thirty-six cents. Do
8
you know whether that's correct?
9
MR, EZELL: Yes, I was told that by the
10
department head.
11
MAYOR TATE: That is reflected in the City
12
records?
13
MR. EZELL: Yes, sir.
14
MAYOR TATE: Any further questions?
15
MR. FLORENCE: Mr. Ezell, you mentioned some
16
feedback you got from the Tarrant County District Attorney
17
relating to some of the criminal cases filed by the City
18
Police, is that correct?
19
MR. EZELL: Yes, I also mentioned in my
20
statement there that one of the reasons that I went --
21
that we went on this was the data and information that
22
was furnished to me by a special committee.
23
MAYOR TATE: Any further questions at this
24
time'
25
okay. `ie have no further questions of Mr. Ezell at this
1
time, and. I will recognize Mx. Lilly or his attorney,
2
qtr. Butcher.
3
ASR. BUTCHER: Thank you, sir. Mr. City
4
Attorney, at this time, I again call your attention to the
5
fact that you're not following the procedure set out under
6
the City Charter. As I understand it, Mr. Lilly has been
7
notified of his dismissal. Fie has had his badge taken
8
from him and been paid off, and he has filed an appeal to
9
the Board of Appeals. I feel that at this point, this
10
council is proper in sitting on the question_ of whether
11
they support *fir. Ezell or 2tr. Lilly but not as a Hoard
12
of Appeals to confirm their own actions of confirmation
13
or rejection concerning this man's dismissal. Your
14
Charter says that the City Manager may dismiss Mr. Lilly,.
Y I 3 Y
15
or the Chief of Police, with the concurrence of the
16
council. At this time, I would like to poll the council
17
and ask you if you have concurred with Mr. Ezell in the
18
dismissal of your Chief of Police. Mrs. Conine?
19
MRS. CONINE: Yes, I --
20
MAYOR TATE: Wait just a minute. Air. City
21
Attorney
22
MR. BOYLE: It would be out of order at this
23
time in relation to that question. That's the matter
24
that's up before the City Council tonight, and that's
25
the matter that the council will be making its decision.
1 R. BUTCHER: It is a matter before the
2 council, Mr. City Attorney, and I want the record to
3 reflect that Mrs. Thelma F. Conine has said, "yes" to
4 the question. She has already agreed to dismiss the
5 Chief.
6 MAYOR TATE: Well, it was my understanding
7 that we -- before we made that decision, we were entitled
8 to hear the people, the public.
9 MR. BUTCHER: Yes, sir, that's what I want
10 to know. If you've made up your mind before the public
11 hearing and if you concur with the dismissal of the
12 Chief of Police at this time. And Z
polled Mrs. Conine,
13 and she said, "yes."
14 MAYOR TATE: I'm not for sure Mrs. Conine
15 understood the procedure. You're going quite fast, and
16 we're trying very clearly to have a fair public hearing.
17 But we're not going to get into an argument between two
18 attorneys. The City Attorney is going to advise the
19 council, and you can advise Mr. Lilly.
20 MR. BUTCHER: If I've gone too fast, I
21 apologize to you and Mrs. Conine.
22 MAYOR TATE: Okay. When we get it clear from
23 you and Mr. Boyle which way we're going, then we'll
24 proceed.
25 MR. BOYLE: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Butcher is entitled
I to state his opinion into the record which he has, he
2 has on two occasions on the thing. But it's my recommends
3 tion to the council, it's my understanding of the pro -
4 cedure that is to be followed that the City Manager, under
5 the Charter, did ternlinate.the Chief of Police. The
6 council tonight is considering the decision made by the
7 Chief of Police, and after the council has heard whatever
8 it desires to hear in regard to that, it will make its
9 decision as to whether to approve or disapprove that
10 decision. And that's the entire scope of the matter
11 that is before the Council tonight. In my opinion, it's
12 not a proper matter to poll the council on the matter
13 that is up before you tonight for discussion.
14 MAYOR TATE: Mr. Butcher, do you understand
16 the procedure is that we are going to listen to the
16 guests present who would like to speak for or against
1711 or to make any statements in regard to the scope of
the public 01
hearing and that the council will later debate
19 tonight and will make the decision of whether it supports
20 the City Manager in his decision or not.
21 MR, BUTCHER: That's fine, Mr. Mayor. I have
22 no objection to that procedure with you or the City
23 Attorney. But I object that you consider this an Appeal
24 Board at this time. Mr. Lilly has the right to answer
at these chargesl and at this time I requestagain,
1
respectfully, that I be given a copy of these charges.
2
I don't take shorthand, and I can't remember everything
Y 4
3
he read, and I apologize for that defect.
4
MAYOR TATE: Mr. City Attorney, do you have
5
anything further?
6
MR. BOYLE: Well, Mr. Ezell made his statement
7
into the record, and everyone had an opportunity to hear
6
it and may address themselves to it.
9
MR. BUTCHER: Ann I denied the right to have
10
a copy of it?
11
MR. BOYLE: It's just a written statement,
12
and it is in the record, and those are his reasons,
13
and that's all before it.
14
MR, BUTCHER: Am I denied a copy of it?
15
MR. BOYLE: That's all I have to say on it,
16
Your Donor. It's --
17
MAYOR TATE: There's no reason why we can't
18
make a copy of it.
19
MR. BOYLE: We can make copies of it and send
20
them around.
21
MR, BUTCHER: I'm not requesting it be sent
22
around. I'm requesting that I be given a copy as his
23
attorney of record before the council.
24
MR. BOYLE: I have no objections to Mr. Ezell
25
xeroxing a copy of his statement. There were a lot of
1 other things said in addition to that. I have no
2
objection to it, but I would, Mr. r4ayor, recortunend
3 strongly that the procedure that was set out and the
4 scope of the hearing he continued as previously outlined.
5
14AYOR TATs: s
Mr. Butcher, we'll have
a city
6
employee to make a copy
of that. If you would
like to
7
have that, then we'll make it available to you.
8
MR. BUTCHER:
That's exactly what I
want, and
9
I thank you, sir.
10
MAYOR TATE:
But I would ask you --
this is
11 not a court of law, and I'm not sitting as Judge; I am
12 the presiding officer. This is an administrative
13 hearing, and I hope that we can limit the legal activity.
14 The members of the council are not all attorneys, and
15 they're not going to understand everything that's going
16 on. We're going to try to be very patient and very
17 fair, and we ask your indulgence in this also.
18 MR. BUTCHER: I agree to indulge in this,
19 and I -- but I call to the attention of the Mayor that
20 1 have been retained to represent Mr. Lilly. I do not
intend to pull courtroom antics in - chamber.
22 not intend to try to embarrass anybody or harrass any -
23 body, and I will not prolong this meeting any longer
24 than necessary.
25 MAYOR TATE: Well, Mr. Butcher, to clarify
1
the way I understand the advice of the City Attorney,
2
we re not sitting as two bodies or that there's not
3
two procedures.
4
MR. BOYLE: That's correct.
5
MAYOR TATE: That we're going to determine --
6
rather, we're going to consent or approve the action of
7
the City '41anager and that it's not -- and you can call
8
it an appeal or you can call it a consent, but we're
9
really talking about the same thing. There's only one
10
procedure. Do we have an agreement in that?
11
MR. BUTCHER: No, sir.
12
MAYOR TATE: Do you think that there are
13
two procedures? Is that correct?
14
MR. BUTCHER: May I read you the right of
15
your city employees under your City Charter?
16
MAYOR TATE: Well --
17
MR. BUTCHER: It says, "Right of Appeal --"
18
MAYOR TATE: well, the City Attorney has
19
ruled. I was hoping that we had your consent, but we're
20
going to have to abide by the rules of the City Attorney.
21
MR. BUTCHER: Okay. That's fine.
22
MAYOR TATE: Is that fair enough?
23
14R. BUTCHER: That's fair enough, but so that
24
my position can be stated, I'd like to read into the
25
record --
1
MAYOR TATE: Yes, you have that privilege.
2
MR. BUTCHER: -°- this paragraph: I quote from
3
the City Charter under Appointments, Transfers, Dbmotion,
4
Re-employment, et cetera, et cetera, I believe that's
5
the right section --
6
MAYOR TATE: Ido you have a section number?
7
MR. BUTCHER: Section C. And I have this in
8
loose-leaf --
9
MR, BOYLE: This is not the Charter.
10
MAYOR TATE: This is not the Charter?
11
MR. BOYLE.- No, this is not --
12
MAYOR TATE: Well, I want to make sure so that
13
we'll have it for our records what we're talking about.
14
will you make clear the document that you're going to
15
be quoting from?
16
MR, BUTCHER: Just a moment. I have it in
17
loose-leaf --
18
MR. DUNN: Mr, Mayor, I wonder if somebody
19
might check on the air conditioning. It's getting wart.
20
I'm getting the impression that some of the people back
21
there are getting a little bit warm, and I'm sure
22
Mr. Butcher is getting warm.
23
MAYOR TATE: 14r. Hancock, could we have someone
-
24
either open the door or do what they can? Can that door
25
be opened?
I
1 Why don't we? I think that might be wise see what
2 effect it has.
3 1 wonder if we're still having a problem with people
4 hearing. Can everyone in this room bear the proceedings
5 clearly?
6
MR. BUTCHER.- Mr. Mayor and Mr. City Attorney,
7
1 think I am.reading under the city Code, Chapter Eight
8
on Administrative Procedures, I assume. Under Right
9
of Appeal by Employees. No page number,, it's -- the
10
head of the page is titled 1-847t Right of Appeal by
11
Employees: "In order to appeal a notice of dismissal,
12
it shall only be necessary for the employee to file
13
a denial of the charges in writing with the Personnel
14
Director directed to the City Manager requesting a
15
hearing. The appeal must be filed with the Personnel
16
Director for the City Manager within two days from date
17
of receipt of the dismissal order. Upon receipt of the
18
appeal,, the City Manager must notify the members of
19
the Appeal Board and set a date to hear the appeal.
20
The employee shall be notified of the date of the
21
hearing at least twenty-four hours in advance. Failure
22
of the employee to appear shall be cause for dismissal
23
of the appeal." Now, my point is that number one, it
24
is the Mayor's obligation to appoint an Appeal Board.
25 11 If I'm wrong, all Mr. City Attorney has to do is tell me
I
1 where, and I'll try to correct myself. But at this
2 point, that's the code, I think.
3 MR. FLORENCE: Mr. Payor, if I'm not out of
4 order, the section just read, since we're talking on
5 some sort of technical basis here, seems to require --
6 I think I wrote it down as it was read, that the dis-
7
charged
employee file
a written
denial
of charges
at
8 1
the time
he requests
his appeal.
And
I don't see
this
on this letter,
10 MR. BUTCHER: May I answer.>
11 MAYOR TATE: Let's let the City Attorney
12 answer first, and I'll let you respond.
13 MR. BOYLE.* r4r. Mayor and members of the
14 City Council., what he's reading from is the Personnel
15 Manual that was adopted under an ordinance. The
16 Personnel .4lanual did not actually go so far as to
17 set up an Appeal Board or set up any of the procedures
18 relative to that. The council, though, tonight is
19 sitting in relation to the Charter, the Charter is the
20 governing document of the city, and under the Charter,
21 the City Manager has the authority to hire or terminate
22 the Chief of Police and all other employees of the city.
23 The City Chief of'Police did ask to be heard on the
24 matter, that matter is before the council tonight under
01 the Charter to reviewof _ City Manager,
1 and we're also going to hear the Chief's position a
2 to why he thinks that you should not honor that decision.
3 And that's the scope of the review tonight in my opinion.
4 MAYOR TATE: Air, Butcher,
31 MR. BUTCHrR: I would like to answer
GSI Mr. Florence, Mr. Florence, tonight is the first time
7 there's been any charges given to Mr. Lilly. He requested
8 them on the date that they asked him for his badge, and
9 they were not given, and a refusal to give a statement
10 was made. Now, in view of this, I will proceed and ask
11 Mr. Ezell -- may I have a copy of the charges?
12 MR. EZELL: --
13 MAYOR TATE: Pardon me. Mr. City Attorney,
14 MR. BOYLE: Mr. Mayor, as you set out the
1511 procedure, the hearing will be conducted by parties
01 Lng the statements representativematters.
H1 If they desire to address a question, they can address
18 the question to the council, and the council can then,
19 if they so desire, direct that question to any party
20 that they desire to get the information from. But it's
21 not a matter for cross-examination.
22 MAYOR TATE: Would you like to make the
23 statement, then, to council?
24 MR, BUTCHER: No, sir, I want to talk to
25 Mr, Ezell. He's the man that has leveled these charges,
1 and I have not had an opportunity to answer these charges.
2 Z have had no opportunity to know what they are prior to
3 twenty minutes ago. I am entitled, I believe, to help
4 this man prepare himself to answer the charges o
5 Mr. Ezell. And I don't mean to be arbitrary, but you
6 have a man here that he has fired. He has dismissed him.
7 He's now coming to his superiors and says, "You confirm
8 this, but I haven't told him why until we approached
9 the council chambers tonight in an open meeting." Now,
10 I really don't think that's quite fair, and he's made
11 some pretty derogatory remarks here, and I want to ask
12 him about a -few of them.
13
MR. EZELL:
MAYOR TATE:
The City
Attorney says --
14
It's
MR. BUTCHER:
Let the
record reflect that I'm
15 not permitted to ask the City Manager any questions,
16 and I will direct the City Manager's questions direct
17 to the Mayor and the City Council,
18 I want to know what the investigation by the certified
19 public accountant or auditor revealed when it was
20 completed this past few months.
21 MAYOR TATE: Mr. Ezell, do you want to address
01 yourself to that?
23
MR. EZELL:
No, I
don't.
24
MAYOR TATE:
It's
my understanding, ,and the
®' reason• ♦ to make an
35
1 investigation in that department, the way I understand it,
2 Mr. Butcher, was the fact that they had made a statement
3 to the investigating committee investigating the Police
4 Department that there were approximately twenty-five
5 percent of the tickets that had been issued unaccounted
6 for. This concerned us. We visited with the Chief
of Police
of any, that he feltaccount
9 his copy of the tickets. And on the meeting of
10 November 4th, when we sat down and discussed some of
11 the problems in that department, Mr. @- Chief Lilly,
12 at the opening of that meeting, revealed that he had
13 made his own investigation and that he could account
UI for - of the tickets
15 books in that department with the exception of three,
16 and he explained to the satisfaction of the committee
17 the reasons for those three. Still, the state remained
18 that there were some tickets unaccounted for, and we
19 made it clear to Mr. Lilly at that time that we were
20 not accusing him of the fact that the tickets were
21 missing in his department, but that they were unaccounted
22 for. That concerned use and we went ahead and told
23 Chief Lilly that we were going to go ahead and
24 recommend to the Council that these accountants be
25 hired to make a further audit of the, tickets of Municipal
I
1 Court and to determine whether that was actually true,
2 and if not, the reason for it. And what procedures
3 needed to be set up to account for them if they weren't
being accounted for.
5 MR. 13UTCIIER: Did you find any
6 MAYOR TATE: They were hired; they did make
7 an initial investigation; I understand they sampled
8 some four hundred tickets, I believe I'm correct in
9 that, I'm not for sure the number in the sample, but
10 they took_ what they described as a random sample --
11 and by the way, they did not make a written report;
12 they made an oral report to us but would make a written
13 report if we want one and indicated that there were
14 some tickets unaccounted for in Municipal Courts that
15 there were some procedures that probably needed to be
16 changed; that they didn't feel like there were any
17 improprieties; and that the four hundred tickets that
18 they checked, that they found none of them dismissed
19 by a menber of the City Council, the mayor, or any other
20 city official with the exception, I believe, that two
21 were dismissed, one with the notation of the Chief of
22 Police and one, I believe, of an officer. They also
23 verified that the copies were all accounted for in
24 Austin of any convictions under that. And they reported
25 to our satisfaction that there were not any misapplicati
of funds, and that was our main concern. And I can
2
say that apparently, there had never been an audit o
3
those tickets in the Police Department.
4
MR. BUTCHER: I don't question the audits
5
I just grant you --
6
MAYOR TATE: And that was done, and the
7
Police Department was found, apparently, that there
8
were no tickets missing.
9
MR. BUTCHER: No tickets missing, no
10
misappropriation of funds ®-
11
MAYOR TATEz That is correct.
12
MR, BUTCHER: No abuse of pourers.
13
MAYOR TATE: Well, there Was no misappropria-
14
tion of funds, and they found the ticket numbers
15
accounted for.
16
MR. BUTCHER: But was there any abuse of
17
powers by this man concerning the tickets in the audit?
18
MAYOR TATE: The accountants are not in
19
position, I think, to allege any abuse of power. There
20
was no improprieties. I'll leave it for you to decide
21
whether the Chief of Police had the authority to dismiss
22
the ticket. I didn't look into it, I'm satisfied, I thin
23
the committee is satisfied that there was not any
24
abuse of power as far as the accounting for the tickets.
25
MR. BUTCHER: Mr. Mayor, the next question I
I
1 have directed to fir. Ezell through you is I would like
2 for him to tell me an answer to number one: the lack
3 of adequate supervision in the administration of his
4 department, and I need to know in what manner and with
5 whom and on what dates.
6 MAYOR TATE: Well, I'm not for sure that the
7 City Manager has dates and for instances. I'm not for
8 sure that that is his responsibility to make log and
9 keep books on that. If he wants to respond to that
10 question, I don't -- I'm not in a position to, and I
11 don't know whether any other members of the Council are.
12 If he wants to respond --
13 MR. BOYLE: Mr. Mayor, the procedure is
14 strictly up to you all to conduct it. Now, the hearing -
15 to hear the entire presentation of Mr. Lilly and his
16 attorney and take clown all the questions and then direct
17 those however you choose to do so as opposed, I suppose,
18 to one at a time.
19
MAYOR TATE: Could you restate your position,
20
Mr,
City Attorney?
I'm not sure I understood it.
21
MR, BOYLE: I'm just saying it's up to you all,
22
you
as the
chief officer that is conducting the hearing.
23
But
you can
hear out in total, the presentation of
24
Air.
Lilly
and his attorney and take down all the
25
questions,
and then direct them to be answered, if you
1 so desire, at one time rather than going on a question
2 by question basis.
3 MAYOR TINEt Mr. Butcher, do you have a
4 list of questions?
5 SIR, BUTCHER: No, sir, I don't have a list®
6 Your honor. I was not furnished, the charges in time
7 o -r I would have had a list. I want him to explain --
8 may I ask -- please. We're having enough problem up
9 here, and I respect you, but please hold your laughter
10 down so that we can continue here, and I appreciate it.
11 I have not had the charges sufficient time to prepare
12 an answer to them or a set of questions, and that has
13 been my prime concern here at this meeting. And I
14 only know one way to represent my client, and that's
15 to find out exactly what caused these charges, what
16 motivated them, and what his answer is to them. You
17 have a City Manager. He has brought a serious charge
18 here, and I am here to present to this Council as a
19 review council for the -- either the confirmation or
20 the reversal of this dismissal. And that's my prime
21 purpose before this Board, and I just don't want to
22 cause anybody any concern except I'm not going to walk
23 out of here with any concern on my shoulders or the
24 fact that I haven't done James Lilly a job. And I
25 don't know why we can't go ahead and ask him some
I
1 direct questions and get it over with little sooner.
2
MAYOR TATE: Stell, Mr. Butcher, I have to
3 abide by the advice of the City Attorney, Ile's an
4 attorney the same as you, and he has an obligation to
5 represent the city. I understand what you're saying.
6 I'm sympathetic with your desire to know what the
7 charges are, but it's my understanding that there does
8 not necessarily haveto be any charges to dismiss a
9 city employee. The charge could be a lack of confidence.
10 The City Manager has listed some reasons, the City
11 Attorney has
12 MR, BUTCHER: Mr. Mayor, excuse me. You're
13 adding something now.
mi • - _has set
15 procedure. Now, he said if you want to give us a list
16 of questions, the City Manager can answer them. I'm
17 not going to deny you the right if he's in a position to
18 answer. But we want to expedite this. If you can't
19 ask them all at once, if you can give us some of them,
20 we'll ask the City Manager to see if he can answer them.
21 If you can't, then, we will try to hear you one at a
22 time as long as you are reasonable and you don't un -
23 reasonably prolong the procedure.
24 MR. BUTCHER% I'm going to direct this
25 question to all of the city councilmen. I'm going to
M
1 ask you one more time if any member of this City Council
2 has already conceived in his mind that the charges brought
3 by Mr. Ezell are true and that they have made up their
4 mind to affirm this dismissal?
5 MAYOR TATE: Mr. Butcher, the City Attorney
6 said that was out of order. I can give you my assurance
7 that I have not made up my mind. There's a lot of people
8 here; we're going to try to hear them if we stay here
9 till 3:00 o'clock in the Morning.
10 MR. BUTCHER: I would like to know when the
11 insubordination or the lack of confidence or the problems
12 started accruing between Mr. Ezell and Mr. Lilly?
13 MAYOR TATE: Mr. Ezell, can you amplify in
14 this area at all?
15 MR. FZELL: well, I think several months and
16 maybe a year or so ago, I had the feeling from Mr. Lilly
17 that he was not going with my recommendations or with
18 my thoughts in the operation of the Police Department,
19 And as I said before in my previous statement, I think
20 that it wasn't any one item, but I think it was
21 accumulation over a period of time.
22 MR, BUTCHER: Has Mr. Lilly directly dis-
23 obeyed any directive from the office of Pyr. Ezell?
24 I-IAYOR TATE: I think Mr. Ezell has already
25 stated that he has.
1 MR, BUTCHER: What?
2 MAYOR TATE: That he issued a directive that
3 h s to be o job from 8:00 to 5:00 on a regular
e was n the j g
4 basis. Mr. Ezell, do you have a copy of that directive?
5 MR. EZELL: Yes, sir, I believe so, in my
6 file here, Mayor.
7 MR, BUTCHER: while he's looking for it, I'll
8 direct a question. Isn't it a fact that your city
9 procedures and your pay rates and scales provide that
loll an officer -- that a salaried officer shall take time
M1 aid a half off for each hour of overtime he works? And
12 isn't it a fact that tire Ezell is aware of the problems
13 that a Chief of Police has with being up at all hours
14 of the night for different criminal offenses which he is
15 obligated to handle and that it is impractical for any
16 Chief of Police to sit in an office from 8:00 to 5:00?
17 MAYOR TATE: Well# the City Manager is the
18 one that has the administration over the Chief of Police.
19 He has the right to tell the Chief what he expects him
20 to do. Apparently, the City Manager expected him to be
21 in the office from 8:00 to 5:00. There was also an
22 Assistant Chief in the office from 8:00 to 5:00, I
23 understand, and a Sergeant in the office at the same
24 time. I think the City Manager had the right to establ
25 the policy. I understand what you're saying, that the
1
-� 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Chief of Police and Fire Chief perhaps work at other
hours. I'm not debating that issue with you now. We're
trying to clarify whether that directive was issued.
MR. BUTCHER: dell, I'll just ask him if
he ever flat outright refused to Mr. Ezell to follow
the directive?
MAYOR TATE: I don't know whether it's
necessary to state whether he actually outright refused.
Mr. Ezell has already said that he was not carrying out
that order. I assume that should be a satisfactory
answer to your question.
MR. BUTCHER: Well, it isn't, but if that's
the answer
MAYOR TATE: Air. Ezell,
14R. EZELL: I'm sorry.
iiR. BUTCHER: What other department heads
has Mr. Lilly refused to cooperate with or been uncoopera-
tive as the statement is made?
MAYOR TATE: Mr. Ezell, do you want to answer
MR. EZELLt No, I'd rather not answer that.
I don't think that would be a fair question. The
department heads responded to me in confidence, and 2
don't think that would be fair to answer.
MAYOR TATE: Mr. Butcher.
IP
al he has givenreasons,
13
1
present
MR, BUTCHER: I insist that he answer it.
heard them,
and
Mr.
Lilly can
14
2
to those
MAYOR TATE: lie has refused to answer,, and
he would like
3
and
I will ask you to proceed. Where again, I remind you,
4
Mr. Butcher, that this is not a court of law, and I am
5
bending a little bit the advice of the City Attorney in
6
respect for you and your ability as an attorney. But
7
we do not have to continue on this basis. The City
8
Attorney has ruled that we are not going to have any
9
cross-examination, and this was his advice to the City
10
Manager earlier today, I understand, and this is not
1111
the procedure that we're to follow. The charges that --
al he has givenreasons,
13
Everyone
present
has
heard them,
and
Mr.
Lilly can
14
respond
to those
if
he would like
to
and
anyone here
15 present. And we're going to listen to all of those
16 speakers. And I will suggest at this time rather than
17 continue in this manner which is not going to be
18 productive, is for us to hear from Chief Lilly and let
19 him deny these claims.
20
MR. BUTCHER:
Well, I'm
denying them for him
21
and on his behalf, and
you'll hear
from him in just a
22
few minutes, fir. Mayor.
But as his
attorney, I deny
23
all the charges on his
behalf,and I
will continue to
24
direct the
questions
to
you. And I'll
ask a
question
25
right now
to all of
the
members of the
City
Council.
1
I And before I say it, I'm going to submit this man to you
2 to talk to you and let you ask him some questions and
3 to answer these charges personally. But right now,
4 is there anything that he could get up here and say to
5 this council or do to this council that would cause this
6
council, each and collectively, to not follow the
7
reconunendations of your City Manager?
8
MAYOR TATE: well, I was not present when
9
the City Manager dismissed hire. I do not know what his
10
knowledge of the facts are. I was present when the
11
investigative committee visited with Mr. Lilly on
12
November 9th and on another date shortly before that,
13
and I know that he was wade aware of many problems in
14
his department. So he is not in complete ignorance
15
of the problems in that department and the things that
16
he was being expected to do by the City Manager,
17
MR. BUTCHER: Let me ask you a question,
18
Mr. Mayor, for you or Mr. Ezell. Since November the 9th,
19
is, I believe, the date you used ---
20
MAYOR TATE: November 4th,
21 MR, BUTCHER: November the 4th? You advised
22 him of various things that were wrong in his department?
23 MAYOR TATE: At that meeting and at a meeting
24 prior to that date.
25 MR, BUTCHER: what was that date?
1
MAYOR TATE: I'm not for sure. Chief Lilly
2
may know, I'm not sure. It was probably a few days
3
before that.
4
MR, BUTCHER: Is it wrong for a Chief of
5
Police who has the reputation that Mr. Lilly has in this
6
community to ask for funds with which to improve the
7
department?
8
MAYOR TATE: I don't think it's wrong to ask
9
for funds, but I think the department head has an
10
obligation to be conservative, to administer his
11
department efficiently, and to help conserve and protect
12
the tax dollar of this community. Each department head
13
is supposed to make a recommendation to the council each
14
year.
15
MR, BUTCHER: Is it cause for a dismissal if
16
they continue to ask for money?
17
MAYOR TATE: Well, I have some facts here --
18
MR. BUTCHER: Mr. Mayor, you have been
19
crawling on me about pocding., If it's wrong, it's
20
wrong= if it isn't, it isn't.
21
MAYOR TATE: You asked me a question, so let
22
me go ahead and clarifyit for the people present what
23
we're talking about. we're spending -- and these figures
-
24
are part of the Council of Governments. Their figures
25
show a population of the City of Grapevine of ninety-four
9
1 hundred people. They show that we have fifteen patrolmen,
2 twenty-eight personnel in that department, and that we
3 spent, budgeted, four hundred twenty-nine thousand three
4 hundred fifty dollars which is a little over thirty
5 percent of the tax budget for police protection. That
6 is forty-five dollars and sixty-eight cents per person
7 for police protection. The City of Colleyville is
8 spending eighteen dollars and eighty-three cents; Everman,
9 twenty-one dollars and eighty-three cents; Richland Hills,
1011 twenty dollars and fifty-two cents; Bedford, nineteen
dollars and forty-six cents; North Richland Hills, seven�
12 teen dollars and sixty-nine cents; Euless, twenty-three
13 dollars and twenty-nine cents; Lewisville, eighteen
14 dollars and eighty-eight cents per person; Haltom City,
15 sixteen dollars and eleven cents; Carrollton, twenty -
16 seven dollars and eighty-four cents; Hurst, eighteen
17 dollars and forty-eight cents, Plano, eighteen dollars
18 and ninety-seven cents; Denton, twenty-two dollars and
19 eighty-four cents; Richardson, seventeen dollars and
20 ninety-four cents; Irving, seventeen dollars and twenty -
21 nine cents; Garland, twenty-one dollars and thirty-two
22 cents. We have one patrolman for every six hundred
23 twenty-six people; Bedford has one for every fourteen
24 fifty-four; North Richland hills, one for every eighteen
25 thirty-three; Euless, one for nineteen thirty-eight;
M
7 Garland,one for every eighteen seventy-five. Now, we
8 have -- most of these, the average of these other cities,
9 we have twice as many officers or in some cases three
10
1
Lewisville, one
for fourteen twenty-one; Haltom City,
11
2
one for sixteen
forty -fours Carrollton, one for ten
12
3
thirty -fou l burst, one for every eleven tent Plano,•
head makes a request for a
4
one for every twelve sixty-two; Denton,one for every
or request for men
5
eleven seventy;
Richardson, one for every fourteen -
has an obligation
6
o -eight; Irving,
one for every eleven twenty-eight;
7 Garland,one for every eighteen seventy-five. Now, we
8 have -- most of these, the average of these other cities,
9 we have twice as many officers or in some cases three
10
tines
as many officers per
person, and we're spending
11
twice
or more per capita for
police protection. Now,
12
think,
when the department
head makes a request for a
13
budget
or request for men
and equipment. Now, the
14
council
has an obligation
to have some confidence in
15 his recommendation and ought to have the right to rely
16 on it in determining how much money is needed for that
17 department to insure that the public is properly policed
18 and protected. Now, that's all I'm saying. We're out
19 of line, we're way out of line because of the Police
20 Chief's requests. And we didn't give him near the
21 requests that he made, and I will further address myself
22 to that later in the proceedings. But this is an example
23 of the Chief making recommendations to the council in
24
the budget for men and equipment.
We're way out
of
25
line, and he was not responsive to
cutting back.
He
1 indicated that we still did not have enough nen. He
2 asked for four more men in the last budget, and we
3 didn't give him any. These are facts, statistics,
4 and were meaningful to me sitting here, the city
5 administrator, trying to save taxes. People are
6 conscious of taxes in this town. They're wanting taxes
7 reduced. They're demanding that city officials be
8
efficient.
Candidates
are running on
those platforms.
9
1 And we've
got to demand
them. We're
spending more than
01 twice the amount of most cities in this area for policc
11 protection. Prow, something is wrong.
12 MR. BUTCHER: I'm not questioning that because
13 you're spending too much money. My question is do
14 you think it should be causation for dismissal of your
15 Chief of Police because he wants to continue to have a
1611 good Police Department and asks for more money. That's
U1 my question.
18 MAYOR TATEs I think that most of the people
19 that are paying taxes will expect us to pay a reasonable
20 amount for police protection, and I would expect the
21 Police Chief to make recommendations that are: reasonable.
22 If he would not agree to reduction of the force or would
23 not agree to be efficient or would not cooperate with
24 the City Manager or the City Council in this respect,
25 I would say yes, it's grounds for dismissal.
I
1 MR. BUTCHER: Has he been asked to deplete his
2 force and fire any men?
3 MAYOR TATE: I asked him if we didn't have
4 too many men, and he said no.
5 MR. BUTCHER: Well now, Mr. Mayor, what are
6 you doing asking him when it's the City Manager's job
7 and you're not to iterfer with the police officers o
8 department heads?
9 MAYOR TATE: I was a part of the investigative
10 committee appointed b this council and as
Y r part of these
11 official duties, I asked him that question. And I think
12 as the Mayor of this town, I have the right to ask him
13 that question. I think it's a fair one.
14 MR, BUTCHER: I'll ask the question --
15 MAYOR. TATE: And I think, the facts will show
16 that he was not responsive to that, and he could not
17 come up with any ideas to reduce the capital outlay
18 in that department and that he requested four more men
19 at the budget hearing last fall in addition to that.
20 MR. BUTCHER: Is this set of facts you have
21 just given, Mr. Mayor, a part of the investigation listed
22 under seven in the charges which says, "Data and informa-
23 tion furnished me by a special committee of the City
24 Council that investigated the Police Department?*
25 MAYOR TATE: All of these statistics were not
1 available to the committee at the time that we discussed
2 with the Chief. I don't believe that we pointed out
3 the difference in what other cities were spending a
4 the time. Ile just visited with him as far as the City
6 of Grapevine was concerned. These facts and figures
6 were part of the findings of the investigative committee,
7 yes, sir.
8 MR, BUTCHER: I wonder if Air. Ezell has made
9 an investigation to see whose responsibility it is to
10 prepare complaints for the Corporation Court and see
11 that those complaints are properly handled on appeal
12 to the County Court of Tarrant County?
13 MAYOR TATE: We've had two procedures.
14 Mr. Ezell, would you clarify again, the procedure as
16 it operated as you know it under the Police Department
16 and as it is operating now?
17 MR. EZELL: Up until 174, that was handled
18 through our Police Department, And in 1974, we started
19 making warrants here at the City Ball, and they were
20 in turn given to the Police Department for -- to take
21 care of or to resolve these warrants. In October of
22 this year, this was moved up to the City Hall under the
23 Department of Revenue and in our Corporation Court.
24
MR,
BUTCHER:
Mr. Ezell, who
did you discuss --
25
with whom did
you discuss
the dismissal
of Chief Lilly
1
prior to your notification to him of such dismissal?
2
MAYOR TATE: Mr. Butcher, that has nothing
3
to do wi th the charges that you're trying to understand,
4
and you call them charges, that have been leveled against
5
chief Lilly.
6
MR. BUTCHER: What do you mean, it doesn't
7
have anything to coo with it?
8
MAYOR TATE: It doesn't have anything to do
9
with it. The City Attorney has said that you are out
1p
of order. Now, I'm trying to cooperate with you, and
11
you say your interest is to find out the charges in more
12
specific.
13
MR. BUTCHER: Well, if I don't get any
14
answers, how am I going to find them out?
15
MAYOR TATE: That question does not have any -
16
thing to do with any charges.
17
MR. BUTCHER: Ilell, I feel like it does.
18
MAYOR TATE: Well, you have that right.
lg
MR. BUTCHER: And I want it answered. And if
20
he denies to answer it or refuses, that's part of the
21
record.
22
MAYOR TATE: The City Attorney is the one
23
that is making the legal rulings for the city tonight.
24
R. BUTCHER: Mr, City Attorney --
25
MAYOR TATE: And let me point out again, I am
1 going beyond what the City Attorney is wanting me t
2 do in trying to cooperate with you in all fairness, But
3 I'm not going all the way.
4 MR, BUTCHER: Mr, City Attorney, do you
31 direct him notanswer that que
611 MR, BOYLE: Well, Mr. Mayor, the ground rules
31 have been
8
standably
that everyone has
an opportunity
to be heard.
9
Mr. Ezell
stated his reasons
and gave his
reasons.
U1 We have providedstatement
11 charges. Those are reasons as read into the record
12 coupled with a lot of the other statements that Mr. Ezell
13 had made into the record. The council had the opportunit
14 to ask him some questions. Everybody here, Mr. Lilly,
15 his attorney, has an opportunity to present their views
16 to the council for the council to consider when they
Ut make their decision
U21 rules of evidence are not applicablei and cross-examinat-i
19
is not available under
this, and that has
been
my
20
recommendation,and it's
my understanding
that
that was
21 the ground rules that the council did approve that set
22 forth the hearing and that a continual effort to direct
23 questions at Mr. Ezell is an effort, in my judgment,
24 to circumvent the rules. And I recommend that you do
25 move along so everyone can have an opportunity to be
54
1 heard relative to the matter.
2 MAYOR TATE t Okay. Mr. Butcher, on the advice
3 of the City Attorney, we will not accept any further
4
questions or cross-examination. You have a right at
5
this time to make a statement on behalf of Chief Lilly,
6
and Chief Lilly has the right to make a statement, and
7
then we will go to the floor and talk to the people.
8
MR, BUTCHERS Mr. Mayor, it's apparent that
9
the ground rules were laid to circumvent my question to
10
Mr. Ezell, and I resent it. And I want the record to
11
reflect it. I want the record to reflect that each
12
councilman has failed to answer any question I have
13
asked them concerning the dismissal of this Chief.
14
Noir, I'm going to make a statement to you, and I'm going
15
to make a statement to this council on behalf of Mr. Lill
16
Z think it is an outright disgrace for such a charge to
17
be leveled at a man, refuse to give him the charges,
18
set a hearing here in three, four or five days, refuse
19
to give the attorney a copy of the charges in time to
20
look at them, except by demand, and then stand up here
21
and refuse to let the attorney stand up here and ask
22 the questions and answer them. Now, he's brought a
23 bunch of charges against the Tuan for no good reason,
24 for no good cause, and this man has, in my opinion,
25 a vested property interest in this city. He has good
1 cause to believe that after nine faithful years o
2 service on this Police Department as your Chief, that
3 he is entitled to be kept as the Chief of Police until
4 he does something worthy of dismissal, and it's not in
5 the books is this particular instance, He has the right
6 to be given the charges at the time of dismissal, he
7 has the .right to present his facts and that right is
8 being denied here tonight whether you think so or
9 whether Mr. City Attorney thinks so or not. And there's
10 no charges in this. The biggest thing you have talked
11 about tonight against this man is the confounded
12 dog catcher and whether they ought to be bringing in
13 four dollars a month or whether they ought to be --
14 and I'll assure you that these are the voters that are
15 looking for Chief Lilly to protect them and for p otecti
16
of this community. whether
it's six
hundred here and
17
eight hundred in Colleyville
doesn't
make much difference
19 MAYOR TATE% well, I disagree with you. 1
20 think it does make a difference to the taxpayers, Are
21 you saying that there has to be some grounds for
22 dismissal of an employee either by a city or any
23 business? Does the city not have the right if it does
24 not have confidence in an employee, to dismiss him?
NMI; MR. BUTCHER: Mr, Mayor, you set the ground
1
rules, and you said that the dismissal could be, number
2
one, by the City Manager's actions number two, that it
13
M. BUTCHERt
3
would be confirmed or denied by the City Council; and that
4
if it were confirined and he was dismissed under admiistra
5
tine procedures, he would have the right to appeal and
6
that he would be appearing before a board appointed
7
by Mr. Mayor of this town. And it's apparent to me that
8
this procedure is not being followed. The racord reflects
9
this procedure is not being followed. The record reflects
10
that this is a biased hearing and that you should dis-
11
qualify yourself.
12
MAYOR TATEt
Why
should I disqualify myself?
13
M. BUTCHERt
Because I think you're biased
14
and partial, Mr. Mayor,
15
MAYOR TATE:
I'm
abiding by the advice of
16
the City Attorney, lie's
the
one that --
17
MR. BUTCHER:
I'm
through. You can proceed.
18
MAYOR TATEt
Does
Mr. Lilly --
19
MR. BUTCHER:
Not
at this time. I Grant to
20 hear somebody else first.
21 MAYOR TATEt Okay. We have some guests presen
22 that would like to speak.
23 Mr, Dale Hall, would you like to speak at this
24 time?
25 MR. HALLt Yes, sir.
1
MAYOR TATE: Mould you give your address?
._
2
MR. HALLt 2115 Lakecrest,, Grapevine. Could
3
I address you? But I'd like to address the crowd. I
4
don't know - I don't really have much to say to the
5
council.
6
MAYOR TATEt Fell, just make a statement, then.
7
MR. HALL: I came here to speak in behalf of
8
council which I feel like is something opposed to what
9a
lot of people are here for tonight. But I've known
10
some of the guys on the council, I've known some of them
11
for thirty years and better. I know who they are and
12
ghat they represent and that they are trying to do a
13
good job. And I insist, those people that I know here,
14
that you take a responsible attitude toward what's going
15
on here tonight because it means a lot to me, and I think
16
these guys are doing a good job, and I dant this to be
17
a .responsible meeting. And I know Mr. Lilly, and I have
18
nothing against him. But I feel like that the council
19
feels like they do. And I just want it to be done in
20
the proper manner, and I want everyone to approach it in
21
thatm er, andI do not think it's the place for
22
clapping and laughing because it's a serious matter and
23
it's very serious to me. Thank you.
24
MAYOR TA : s Ann Carlson.
25
MS. CARLSO: I do not have anything to say
I
2211 business, and keep it in mind, and you h I ave all heard it
23 before# that figures don't lie, but liars figure. N - ow
24 then, we're talking out the increase of the pick-up
25 of the warrants over this last year. Since February, I
1
at this time,
2
MAYOR TATE: Bill Boswell,
3
MR. BOSWELLt Council --
4
MAYOR TATE: Wouldyou state your address?
5
MR. BOSWELL: 3628 Grandview Drive in the
6
Grapevine Lake Estates Addition, I'm not a legalese or
7
1 can't match wits with you, Bill, or I can't match
8
wits with the City Attorney., I'm plain vanilla. You
9
quoted some facts about how many patrolmen there were
10
and in what towns and so forth and all this. I moved
11
down here from a town that You will never be able to
12
equal and because of one thing. It was nearly twelve
13
years ago, and that was a climbing crime rate in the
14
City of Arlington. It's not here, it's not here to
15
that degree, and it's not here to that date. If the
16
Police Department has to have a budget of ten times
17
what Arlington does to keep it in this manner, that's
18
where we have got to stay,, gentlemen. I have made tome
19
notes over this whole thing and all, but I want tomake
20
one statement before we get off into it. We've heard
21
a lot Of statistics and a lot of figures and all this
2211 business, and keep it in mind, and you h I ave all heard it
23 before# that figures don't lie, but liars figure. N - ow
24 then, we're talking out the increase of the pick-up
25 of the warrants over this last year. Since February, I
RE
1 think Mr. Ezell said. Since that period of time, the
2 Dallas and Fort Worth Police Departments both have
3 initiated computer programs where my company, we billed
4 and put equipment in the police car where the patrolman
can punch in that information and it goes into that
6
computer, and before he's even got the guy's driver's
7
license out, he knows hoer many warrants the guy has.
8
Sure, you're going to have an increase in the last few
9
months because we've got two big sisters on each side
10
have helped us. They've increased. Now, the dog warrant
11
business. Gentlemen on the council, you hung this man
12
with an unsavory job that he couldn't enforce. You .
13
annexed all the lakes at the insistence of Mr. Ezell,
14
but you never took into consideration that you have
15
got a family of campers out there on the weekends that's
16
got a dog that got loose, they couldn't find it, they
17
went home, and it was there. Now, them dogs have been
18
loose since twelve years ago out there, and in fact,
19
I own some of them, but that ain't no big deal either.
20
But you hung this additional area on this Police Depart -
21
ment and did not give him any additional support. The
22
airport came in; you didn't give him any additional
23 support there. And that man right there behind me,
24 James Lilly, saved me a fine of assault and battery on
25 that City Manager. Now then, Z don't know what he's
MR
1 called you all over the telephone, but I know what he's.
2 called me. And I know the next time, 10m going to get
3 him. That's a fact, gentlemen. Now, a
� , 11 these towns
4 that you have quoted bills, out of the other places,
5 patrolmans are up a higher rate and all
® you didn't
6 quote what the hell their crime rate is. Now then,
7 interdepartmental, how many departments you got in this
8 town? Four?
9 MAYOR TATE: More than that. Ten?
ZO MR. BOSWELL: Well, I mean how many departmentF
11 you got that has more than one man in it.
12 MR. EZELL: About twelve.
13 ASR. BOSWELL: Twelve? Twelve departments.
14 We do have some luxuries, don't we? Now then, we'll
15 get back to some things that have -- all that -- there
16 was some advice that came from a committee, is this
17 right, that investigated the Police Department. I think,
18 if I'm quoting right, through the newspaper comments,
19 last August, and Dill, I think
You was the one at that
20 time thatsade the statement to the paper in
Your column
21 at that time that you was concerned about wily the number
22 of warrants that was being g processed wasn't being upheld
23 in the courts. I'll tell
You why. It's because every -
24 body is innocent until they are proven guilty, and they
25 can appeal that court decision all the way from here to
1 TiH)uktu. I've been down here before; that man's had
2 me down here before; he's had my kids down here before,
3 but we've got to still respect him. Why? b•+e're average
4 citizens; we're not legalese; we don't know how to
5 manipulate; we're not in the manipulating business; we
6 don't want to do it; we don't want to be matching wits
7 with you. You're all elected, you're all duly responsibl
8 people to run this town and run this city and everything
9 else, but you don't hear the good parts that come out.
10 You don't hear the good part about James Lilly taking
11 juveniles in his own home in this town, and when that
12 they beat him from the Tarrant County Courthouse back
13 to their house, when he picks them up, but yet he's
14 got enough pride in his job that he'll take them kids"
15 and put them in his house, and he's done it before --
16 that dere delinquent. Now, you want to holler in a
17 malicious «- uncooperative departmental -- man, if Z
18 had his job, I'd be so damned uncooperativer everybody
19 that walked that street -- it would just be unbelieveable.
20 But that's not my profession, that's his. lie handles
21 it well. I've been to his place before, and he's been
22 to my place before, but he's an honest man and handles
23 his duties as Chief of Police in the City of Grapevine,
24 and has been. This you can't deny. You gave hire that
25 lake out there and you hung him on streets and all, and
1 for your information, gentlemen, he can't even patrol
2
me coming back and forth to the City of Grapevine. I
3 live in the City of Grapevine, but in order for me to
4 come down here, I've got to drive on a County Road or
5 the Corps of Engineers, and you gave him that responsi-
6 bility to police it, and he can't police it. Now then,
7 three years ago, Mr. Ezell, you remember the day that
8
task,
I came to
your office with Mr. Lilly,
and you had cut
9
There
him out of
the budget? At that time,
he had from the
10
today
Fort Worth
International Airport that just went into
11
the Fighway
operation
to the western side of the
Grapevine Lake,
12
23
and he had
four patrolmen. You gave
him an impossible
13
task,
gentlemen= the man can't do it.
Making
errors?
14
There
ain't a soul in here that ain't
made an
error
15
today
because that man don't walk the
face of
this earth.
16
Judgment?
That's what you got him here for, and I'll
17
make you a
bet if he was shooting dice, he'd be conning
18
out fifty
percent or better everytime he rolled the dice.
19
Now, look,
this town, in the last ten years, has grown
20---
from the whopping sum of. eighty -five -hundred people to --
21
the Fighway
Department just the other day, put up a neva
22
sign. It
said ten thousand nine hundred and ninety-eight.
23
This is a
grand total of nearly twenty-five hundred
24
people in
over ten years of its growth. During that
25
period of
growth, it hasn't grown because you have
63
1 enticed people to come in here or anything else, bec&use
2 you have annexed these additional areas. Now then, we'll
3 get on back farther before Jack I'm sorry, James Lilly.
4 We'll go back to Mr. Jack Hell, and we'll go back to
5 Don gall, your Regional Police Chiefs. And Mr. Pirkham --
6 boy, you remember Ira Woods going down to the Police
7 Department every Monday morning. He used to go through
8 all the clad -blamed traffic tickets and throw out the ones
9 he didn't want prosecuted, don't you? This is how
10 rotten it was. Jack Belcher was probably as up -standing
11 a man as James Lilly is, but he couldn't hack it, either.
12 lie couldn't go. Gentlemen, you ain't giving a person an
13 incentive or a bit of help to come in here and do a job
if you listen to a bunch of stuff that has been concocted
Ut
15 by somebody ®- a pipe dream somewhere to be put down and
16 a person charged with that. If a person charged me with
17 that as an individual citizen, you got a hell of a fight
18 on your hands, friend. But there's a small barrier betty
19 James Lilly and Floy Bzell, and that's respect for the
20 man that's his boss. Now, the man has had respect for
21 his boss, which is the City Manager, and he's had
22 respect for the council. But with all due respect put
23 all aside, I don't think anybody has given James Lilly
24 any respect for what he has done for this town of,
25 Grapevine and these nine years that he's gave of his
I
life.
And maybe he ain't
there from 8:00 to 5:00, but
2
I can
make you a damn bet
that he was there from 8:00 to
3
12:00
the night before or
12:00 to 4:00. There's many
4
of them
nights that he's been clown there, but you ain't
5
given
this man the common
courtesy to say, "Floy Ezell,
6
you're
all fouled up." I
thank you.
7
MAYOR TATE: Leonard B. Russell.
8 MR. RUSSELL: Thank you, sir. Leonard B.
9 Russell, 309 North Main Street. And Mayor 'Tate, I want
10 you to know I :calked down here because I'm not afraid to
11 walk home. I moved from a town adjoining this city,
12 one that you called off, and I think the City Manager
23 and you, Mayor, know that I have had my differences
14 with this man and also this. council. We've worked them
15 out. But I'm here to speak to this man as a police
16 officer, and he's a policeman's policeman. Now, one
17 charge, Mr. Ezell said -- I'm retired. I retired three
18 years ago and moved back to our home on Main Street,
19 I work a lot with the Welfare over in Fort worth. This
20 man got out of bed one morning at 3:00 o'clock in the
21 morning and come up to Dove Road and Northwest Highway
22 to settle a child abuse about two or three hours. And I
23 see him about 6:00 o'clock in the morning, he's out
24 patrolling because he's out working and his door is alwa
25 open. This morning, I circulated a•petition. I had no
9
5 council meeting, or if it's necessary, I will contact
6 each registered voter in Grapevine, Texas, and find out
7 their feelings on this matter. Gentlemen, I think that
8 we have one of the finest police departments, and we owe
9 it all to this man. T told you I walked up here. It
10 wasn't because I couldn't .find a parking place. My wife
11 and I, we walk down Main Street almost to the lake about
12 1:00 o'clock in the morning. tine couldn't do that over
13 in Irving because we know that about every second or
14 third car, We might see a patrol car down here, and we
15 know we're protected. You think that ain't worth forty -
16 eight dollars a person? I'll pay it. And you talk to
17 the shop owners* Mayor Tate, the one down here at
18 Quickwayt PDQ down there. My son's manager of a PDQ
19 over in Irving, and they've had three robberies in three
20 months over there. Thev haven l f n_.,n},a.
21 there. They robbed the PDO up here one time. They
22 were apprehended, weren't they? You bet. We have -- T
23 understand we have one of the lowest crime rates in any
24 city. Now, Mayor, that's worth forty -- what was your
25 figure on that?
1
idea I
could speak before this Council tonight. if I
2
3
had, I
would have brought signatures, We have approxi -
mately
two hundred fifty to three hundred signatures,
4
I will
present it, if necessary, at the next scheduled
5 council meeting, or if it's necessary, I will contact
6 each registered voter in Grapevine, Texas, and find out
7 their feelings on this matter. Gentlemen, I think that
8 we have one of the finest police departments, and we owe
9 it all to this man. T told you I walked up here. It
10 wasn't because I couldn't .find a parking place. My wife
11 and I, we walk down Main Street almost to the lake about
12 1:00 o'clock in the morning. tine couldn't do that over
13 in Irving because we know that about every second or
14 third car, We might see a patrol car down here, and we
15 know we're protected. You think that ain't worth forty -
16 eight dollars a person? I'll pay it. And you talk to
17 the shop owners* Mayor Tate, the one down here at
18 Quickwayt PDQ down there. My son's manager of a PDQ
19 over in Irving, and they've had three robberies in three
20 months over there. Thev haven l f n_.,n},a.
21 there. They robbed the PDO up here one time. They
22 were apprehended, weren't they? You bet. We have -- T
23 understand we have one of the lowest crime rates in any
24 city. Now, Mayor, that's worth forty -- what was your
25 figure on that?
I
1 MAYOR TATE: It's forty-five dollars and
2 sixty-eight cants per person.
3 Mit. RUSSELL: It's worth every penny of it.
4 I'll pay it. This man, like I say, I have no love for
5 this Man as an
individual.
lie
lives
right down
the
6 street, around
the corner
from
me.
I've been to
his
7 house twice; one time was yesterday, another time I
8 went up to his house, and he wasn't there. And that's
9 the only time I've ever been to this man's house. But
10
I tell
you one thing, if
I was to call him any time
11
of the
night, he would come to my house because he has
12
always
done it. And his
patrolmen --- I'll -- my boys,
utI have two one is one is twenty,
14 and do you know that they respect these policemen out
15 here in Grapevine, but they had no respect for the
16 Irving Police Department. I'm not knocking the Irving
17 Police Department# don't get me wrong, and I hope there
18 is no Irving officers here in this chamber. But these
19 officers out here are public relations people. They
20 meet the public, and the officers reflect their Chief,
21 and that's this man right here. And like I say, if
22 I had known I could have spoke to the council tonight,
23 2 would have brought the petition. We do have a
24 petition. I hope and pray that the council votes in
25 favor of Chief Lilly because we need this roan. Every
21i person that I have talked to in this town today would
2 stand up and fight for this man. I thank you.
3 MAYOR TA Thank you.
4 Roger Cloud.
5
MR.
CLOUD:
Mr. Mayor,
I'm
Roger Cloud,
6
520 Bluebonnet
here in
Grapevine,
and
I would like to
7
compliment
the
Police Department
for the
general
8
11 protection
that
we have received
at the
business I am
21 associated with. We all went to sleep here a while
10 back, and we can't handle bicycles, but that's as much
11 our fault as it is anybody else's. I would like to
12 relate one incident that happened, however, that happened
13 in June of '7. One of my staff members -- he couldn't
14 comply with a small request of a member of the Police
15 Department, and for about a week and a half, two weeks,
16 I had a police car behind rie three out of four mornings
17 and sometimes picking me up when I went back from lunch.
GL's' Well,, I mentioned it to a membdr of r Council
19 time who is no longer on it, and it.was stopped abruptly.
20 It was discontinued, and I was concerned about that.
X
21 And again, it could be just an ironic happening, but it
22 did happen, immediately after we couldn't comply with
23 a request from a member of the Police Department. That's
24 all I have to say.
at MAYOR TATE: Floyd -
I MR. DEACON: Mr. Mayor, members of the City
2 Council, Mr. Ezell, Mr. Lilly, my name is Floyd Deacon.
3 I live at 105 Cross Creek Drive. It's regrettable that
4 we have to have a meeting like this, but it's also good
5 that we can have an open hearing where every person can
6 express their beliefs and what they thank. Tonight I
7 would like to express my opinion in regard to a citizen
8 of Grapevine by respectfully requesting this City
9 Council to reduce the expenses of this Police Department,
10 It is far out of line. I think it's a proven fact when
11 every city around us maintains a department which operate
12 at a third or half of what our department operates for.
13 I'm a taxpayer, and I request that we be competitive.
14 If we aren't, we certainly will be punished for not being
15 so. tae will not have industry; we will not have people;
16 we will not have anything coming to this community if we
17 do not maintain a competitive position. Therefore, I
18 back your figures one hundred percent, and I think those
19 figures alone are enough. And I have got friends on both
20 sides, and I hope that I can keep them after these
21 remarks. I think those figures alone are enough for
22 dismissal of Mr: Lilly. In addition, I think Mr. Ezell's
23
statements tonight are
adequate. They are
sufficient,
24
and I think they should
be honored by this
City Council
25
sitting here listening
to those reports.
I respectfully
2' request• honor_ position c A
2 statement here tonight. I thank you.
3 MAYOR TATE: Mr, Andy Anderson,
4 MR. ANDERSON: Mayor, City Councilmen, all
5 I've got to say is I'm here in defense for the Police
6 Chief. One of your big charges, gar. Ezell, is that the
7 man wasn't in his office. By God, I've come by here
8 half a dozen times and couldn't find you. I haven't
9 had anything but the very best police protection at
10 my home or residence and my businesses. We've been
11 treated as nice and as fair as anybody would ever expect
12 to be treated, and probably the only place that I haven't
13 been treated exceptionally nice is with the City Council.
14 I would like to ®- if you don't mind, would you read
15 the last three names on that little stack of cards you
16 got ere? The last three names. Is that the -- am I
17 the last one?
19 Fletcher.
20 MR. ANDERSONt Well, I'm going to say one
21 other thing, and. I'm not going to say any more. And that
22 is if there is any wrong -doing by any city office here,
23 Police Department or whatever, it's not from the man
24 sitting behind me here. Thank you.
25 MAYOR TATE: Peggy Fletcher.
70
5 1 presently do live in Dallas, I still consider Grape -
6 vine my home. I would like to say on behalf of Chief
7 Lilly and his department, he is a businessman. I will
8 say, Air. Ezell, I have called Many tines -- in respect
9 to your statement that Chief Lilly is not in his office,
10 I have called many tunes as early as a quarter till
11 8:00, and I have talked to Chief Lilly personally. I
12 have called your office, and I can name about fourteen
13 different times that I had to call you back before I
14 got you. And I think you recall the question that I
15 was going to ask you in regard to a streetlight at that
16 11 time. This chief, and I still consider him a chief
18
1
MS. F'LETCHE s
Your honor and City Council
19
2
members and City Manager,
Mr. Ezell, my name is Peggy
if you consider
they
have fifteen
officers,
3
Fletcher. Formerly, I was
the manager of Regional Place
4
Apartments. I might add
I still have a heart in Grapevine
5 1 presently do live in Dallas, I still consider Grape -
6 vine my home. I would like to say on behalf of Chief
7 Lilly and his department, he is a businessman. I will
8 say, Air. Ezell, I have called Many tines -- in respect
9 to your statement that Chief Lilly is not in his office,
10 I have called many tunes as early as a quarter till
11 8:00, and I have talked to Chief Lilly personally. I
12 have called your office, and I can name about fourteen
13 different times that I had to call you back before I
14 got you. And I think you recall the question that I
15 was going to ask you in regard to a streetlight at that
16 11 time. This chief, and I still consider him a chief
18
Police Department. I'm
presently
in Dallas, and
19
according to my figures
that you
have laid out here in
20
respect
tolDw many people
per
capita these
officers take
21
care of,
if you consider
they
have fifteen
officers,
22 they have three sergeants,, a detective, a chief, assistan
23 chief, two clerks and one secretary and four dispatchers.
24 Now, you consider that you've got three shifts, and
25 you've got five officers per shift. Each officer needs
1 two days off a week to work a forty -hour week. You have
,..1
2 a population of ninety-four hundred. Friends, that
3 comes down to three thousand one hundred and sixty-six
4 people per officer to take care of. This does not
5 compare with any other figures that you gave for any
6 other outlying area. I'm not a Mathematician because
7 I usually carry a calculator around. I don't have i
8 here tonight; if my figures are wrong, please correct
9 Me. As far as the warrants that have not had any kind
10 of dispensation, I don't know how the Police Department
11 handles it. But I know at Regional Place, when I went
12 into Regional Place, we had a very bad situation. We
13 turned it around to a very good situation because o
14 a good Police Department. This Police Department is --
15 they're -- pardon me. This Police Department does not
16 discriminate. This Police Department is fair. if
17 person does wrong, they should be punished. I firmly
18 believe this myself as does Chief Lilly. If anybody
19 is my friend and I call up Chief Lilly and say, "Don't
20 put hire in jail," this roan will put him in jail, and
21 I don't blame him. And I hope that he would do it to
22 anybody, no matter what level they are on because this
23 is fair. This is how we stop crime. I do know that this
24 man does this. I do know that this man's Police Depart -
25 ment does follow through. Now, I came here from Dallas
1 because I believe in this man, and like I said, my heart
2 still lies in Grapevine because I don't feel that this
3 man has done any wrong. I don't believe that this man
4 has done any injustice. As far as you saying that this
5 man needs to be in his office between 0:00 and 5:00, I
6 too am in management. I'm not always in my office
7 between 8:00 and 5:00, but I'm supposed to be. Sometimes
8 I'm there from 7:00 to 6:00. Sometimes, I'm there
.9 from 1200 in the morning until 12:00 the following
10 morning. This too is true of Chief Lilly because I
11 know that he comes out. Ile helps his officers, and he
12
backs his officers. This, friends, is worth any amount
13
of money you're paying this Police Department. Now, in
14
answer to this gentleman right here, Mr. Davis, I believe,
15
saying he was backing the council in what they were
16
paying the Police Department, I don't think they're
17
paying them enough for what they're doing. I see every -
18
day what is happening in other cities. In Grapevine --
19
Grapevine is situated in a place where you get all kinds
20
of thugs and all kinds of people running from either
21
Dallas or fort Worth, it's a good place to have it.
22
These people flush them out. And friends, it's worth
23
any amount of money for them to be flushed out. This
24
is my stand. Thank you very much.
25
MAYOR TATE: Do we have anyone else
I
1 that would like to speak? That have changed their minds?
2 Would you please come forward? Have you been sworn?
3 SPEAKER: Pio. ,
4 MAYOR TATE: I'll ask the City Secretary to
211
A
7 (Thereupon, the witness was
sworn in by the City Secretary
8 after which time proceedings
continued as follows, to -wit.)
9
10
11 MR. LAMt qty name is Conner Lam, and I am
12
a taxpayer
in the City of Grapevine,
reside at 421
Blue -
13
bonnet. I
had not prepared to speak
and therefore
I had
14
not signed a card or registered, but after seeing the
15
ground rules that were laid out here, I feel that as a
16
taxpayer and as a citizen of the City of Grapevine, that
17
1 have a duty, and I feel a responsibility to object to
18
the manner in which this proceeding is being held. Now,
19
Mr. Lilly has the most to.lose by this hearing. The
20
rest of the department heads will go on here, apparently,
21
and the rest of you will go on here, but he may have to
22
be looking for another job. And he has been willing to
23
put everything that he has on the line here in public,
24
taken down by a Court Reporter, presumably to be avail -
25
able to future employers of his. And I believe that if
T
1 he is willing to put everything of his on the line, then
2 you owe him the honor and the respect to allow his
3 attorney and Air. Lilly to ask specific questions and
4 get specific answers to these charges. Now, Mr. Florence
5 over here has just been sworn in and is apparently going
6 to be given the responsibility of making a decision as
7 to whether he either supports or rejects this dismissal.
8 And from what I have heard tonight, he doesn't have
21 enough information to make that decision if the decision
10 is to be based on all the evidence. Now, I think it
11 should be made clear for Mr. Lilly's future in this
12 world, as to what you're making your decision on. i
13 the decision is to be that his budget is too high, then
14 say so. And therefore, his future employers will know
15 what the basis of his dismissal was. If it's insubordi-
16 nation, then, the specific charges should cone out so
17 that he can adequately refute them and so that he can
18 be given an opportunity to hear what it is that has been.
19 said against him. Now, what I would not think would be
mi be for -closed chambers laterwhen
Ut is being debated, for Mro Florence to be filled in on
22 specific charges that might be relevant but to deny us,
23 the public, or to deny Mr. Dilly the opportunity to
24 hear that same discussion. And therefore, I would hope
25 that the City Attorney would in some way modify his
M
1
ground rules to allow a somewhat due process in this
V. 2 proceeding. If it's necessary to have another hearing,
3
then, I think we should have another hearing, a separate
4 hearing, in which Mr. Ezell, if he needs to substantiate
5 dates, can be allowed to do so. I don't think he should
6 necessarily be put on the spot if he was told today
7 what the ground rules would be and he came prepared
8 accordingly. But on the other hand, I don't think that
9 Mr, billy should be expected to operate under such
10 restricted rules. And I for one am proud of this city.
11 I think it has an exceptional crime protection record.
12 It may be that the budget is too high, and I don't like
13 to pay taxes any more than anybody else does. And it
14 may be that the budget should be reduced and still have
15 good protection, but let's set the record straight as
16 to what we're doing here. The man's life, future,
17 is at stake, and therefore, we should take every
18 precaution to see that this hearing is conducted in
19 a reasonable manner. And I think that not allowing his
20
attorney to
cross-examine Mr.
Ezell is a flagrant viola -
21
tion of all
the rules of due
process. I know this is
22
not a court
of law. Hearsay
is going to come in and
23
a whole lot
of other types of
nonadmissible evidence.
24
But I think
that if we're going
to have any semblance
25
of due process here, the man
should be allowed to ask
7
1 specific questions of M. Ezell and not have to go
;. 2 through the payor or any other councilman. And I think
3 that Pyr. Ezell is man enough and is prepared enough
4 if given enough time, perhaps, to prepare his complete
5 case. But I would hope that we're not going to have
6 a period of three months or a year after this hearing
7 of everybody sitting around at coffee talking about,
8 Well, I wonder what the real charges were," or "I wonder
9 what this really was supposed to be about.* If we're
10 going to have a public hearing, and, you know, this
11 is a provision in the Charter, or at least you have
all - decided to have it, then let's have a fair one or not
Not have one at all.
14 MAYOR TATE: Do we have anyone else that
15 would like to speak? Everybody else that would like
16 to speak come on forward and take the oath, and then
27 we'll only have to do it one more time.
W
19 (Thereupon, all remaining witnesses
were sworn in by the City
20 Secretary after which time
proceedings continued as
21 follows, to -wit.)
m
23
MR. STEWARD:
My name
is nilly steward.
I
24
don't know whether I'm
employed
or unemployed with
the
Ut city of Grapevine
I
17 everybody and be honest, and I'm not here to stir nothing
18 else up, but I will say this. They say I follow in his
19 footsteps. I hope I can fit his boots some day.
20 MR. NEYSTEL: Well, as an ex -police officer,
21
1
I would say
previously last week -- a few months ago, this investi-
Lilly is the finest man I have ever
2
gation come up, and I was in part of it solely because
He is
3
23
11msupposed to be a close friend of James, and he was
met. I just
want
to correct one thing as far as an
24
4
police
my Chief and still is my Chief as far as 'm concerned.
25
5
mentioned,
1 was told by certain people -- I don't know whether
6
I have a job or I don't have a job. I don't care any
7
more. I was also told not to show up at this meeting,
8
that it would be in ray bad taste to show up. I didn't
9
feel that they had grounds to fire me or the Chief or
10
Sergeant Neystel. Tomorrow morning or the next day, if
11
they want my badge, they can have it. I was told that
12
they felt like I was too close to this man, and I ame
13
When I was a kid from South Lake and roamed these streets
14
he was a policeman. I drank beer and I raised Cain, and
15
this man treated me right and got me started in law
16
enforcement. I learned three things from him: respect
17 everybody and be honest, and I'm not here to stir nothing
18 else up, but I will say this. They say I follow in his
19 footsteps. I hope I can fit his boots some day.
20 MR. NEYSTEL: Well, as an ex -police officer,
21
I would say
Chief
Lilly is the finest man I have ever
22
worked for.
He is
the finest police officer I have ever
23
met. I just
want
to correct one thing as far as an
24
over -sized
police
department, Mayor, the cities you
25
mentioned,
you failed to mention that none of those
I
cities do have an airport or a lake to patrol which i
2
an added population which you didn't speak o and which
c
3
takes a great deal more, and the reflection of the size
4
of the city has no bearing when that's put into concern.
5
Thank you.
6
?15. KEY: My name is Deborah Key, and I have
7
some questions that I would like to ask the Council.
8
Mr. Ezell was told not to answer the questions asked
9
by Chief Lilly's attorney. Can Air. Ezell answer
10
questions asked by the citizens of Grapevine, or do
11
they not have that right, either, as citizens?
12
MAYOR TATE: Mr, City Attorney, I think that
13
probably what we ought to do at this point -- I think
14
everybody is tired. We ought to take a little break
15
and let me go into conference with you,and ®-
16
MS. KEYt You,mean I can't finish? Is i
17
fair to put me up here and then to cut me off like
18
this?
19
AN UNIDENTIFIED PERSONt Poll the Council.
20
Poll the Council.
21 MAYOR TATE: Ions trying to go in conference
22 with the City Attorney and with Mr. Lilly's attorney
23 to see if we can reach an agreement on the proceedings,
24 and that should be fair, and no one should object to
25 that. Is that acceptable to you?
I
1
MR. BUTCHER: Yes, sir.
2
MAYOR TATE: Could someone bring us some
3
coffee or some cold drinks?
4
The Council stands adjourned for about ten
5
minutes while we talk.
6
7
(Thereupon, a recess was held
after which time proceedings
8
continued as follows, to -wit.)
9
10
MAYOR TATEt Who was the speaker who was
11
up before?
12
MS, KEY: Mayor Tate, at this time I will
13
turn it over to whoever was next in line.
14
MAYOR TATE: Do we have anyone else that
15
would like to speak at this time?
16
MRo SHIRLEYt Yes, I was outside, I wasn't
17
in this room. My name is Bill Shirley, I live at
18
1358 Tipperary. I would like to address the council.
19
Standing outside the door and listening over the speaker,
20
frankly, I was embarrassed for this council and almost
21
ashamed because it sounded like a kangaroo court you're
22
operating here. It sounded terrible. If I had had that
23
on a record and played it back, there isn't any place
24
in the country where they wouldn't just flip over
25
backwards and die laughing at this proceeding. Now, I
1 would like to request douncil, since the Chief -- beg
2 your pardon, since the City Manager has listed, detailed,
3 some of his reasons for the firing, at least on those
4 reasons, I would think that Chief Lilly's counsel should
5 be able to inquire further into the matter from the
6 individual who made those statements, in this case, the
7 City Manager. I have known Chief Lilly only as a chief
8 and as a Sergeant. I had two occasions to meet him.
9 Once, there was a prowler at about 4.00 in the morning.
10 He wasn't working 8:00 to 5:00 at that time, Mr. Manager,
11 He happened. to have the night shift, and he and another
12 patrolman came out, and he handled this situation
13 perfectly. It turned out any vicious prowler was an
14 old boy who was in his scuffs and a floppy hat and
U! Hawaiian
16 in the morning, I thought I'd wait until he tried to
17 crash in the house, and then it seemed to ane to be the
18 smartest thing to get the police out, and Lilly handled
19 it very well. And another time as chief. I had occasion
20 to track down an obscene phone caller who was calling
21 my wife. And it turned out to be a teenager in the
22 city, and I turned that information over to Chief Lilly,
23 and I thought he handled it beautifully. We were dealing
24 with a young fellow, and I just wanted to find out mainly
25 who it was that was making the obscene phone calls and
1 how much risk this might be because my job takes me in
z
2 and out of town, I'm out of town probably half the
3 month. And in that regard, I think this is a very safe
;1
4 town, and it is made so by a very first-rate Police
5 Department. And I think Lilly's one of the smartest
6 policemen I have run into any place, and I think I
7 had two statements from different individuals who were
8 previously on the council to the effect that Chief Lilly
9
was a fine man; in fact, probably the best one that the
10city
has ever had. I don't think I'm talking out of
11
turn in mentioning that, and the job of Chief of Police
12
is ninety-nine percent police officer, and it should be.
13
Some of the matters, some of the charges, talking about
14
the budget, as head of a department, it's his job to
15
run the department as efficiently and accomplish his
16
duties as to law enforcement as efficiently as he can.
17
Gentlemen, you're baiting the question when you're charg-
18
ing him with not being efficient. It is your duty and
19
your job to decide how the money is to be dispersed.
20
Now, this ®- almost all departments in any city and in
21
any governments state, local, and federal, operate on
22
the basis where different department heads will come in
23
and ask for a certain amount of money, but it's up to
24
the people who have charge of the budget to determine
25
how much money he's going to get and other people. I
1 just -- it baits a question. I know I fumbled a little
2 bit, 'm not used to addressing so many people. at'
3 it. Thank you, appreciate i.
4 MS. 11OLSOMBACKs Your Honor, I'm Alice
5 Holsombac , 2805 Mustang Drive. I've been here one year,
6 and when I came here, I had no idea what I was getting
7 into in this fair city. I'm manager of the Twin Oaks
8 Apartments, but I found it was no decent place for
9 any human being to live in. But thanks to this man --
10 and tonight's the first time that I've ever seen him,
11 every time I called that man, he and his officers came
12 to my rescue. Now, I can walk out the door at night
13 and not be afraid because they have cleaned out the dope -
14 heads, hippies, or what have you. And I just want to
15 say that a police department like that is worthanybody's
16 city to have. That's all I have to say.
17 MR. PETRELIS : Mr. 'payor, my name is George
18 Petreli, and I am a Police Chief from an adjacent city.
19 And I had the unfortunate experience of going through
20 a similar incident last week. But I'm talking to you
21 just as a professional policeman now, as an individual
22
citizen, and certainly not
representative
of my city.
23
I'm not speaking for anyone
but myself.
I'm sitting here
24
I'm looking at Mr. and Mrs.
Lilly, and I
know the hell
25
that they're going through;
the wrinkles
that this man
1 has got in the last two weeks and the problems he has
2 had to faces the dignity that he's lost. A lot of this
3 is dignity that he will never be able to regain.
4 Gentlemen, I'm a professional policeman. I've been
5 professional police consultant. And right now, I'm
6 walking a fine line between preaching and meddling. I
7 have no business here, but I remember when I came to
8
my little town a few years ago. James Lilly was
one
9
of the
first people that took of his time, left
his
10
office
for whatever length of time to come over
and
11
welcome
me to the community. I'll never forget
that,
12
folks.
I'll never forget that, and I think that
the
13
City of
Grapevine spent a great deal of money in
25
14
contracting with the International Association of Chiefs
15
of Police to do a professional study as to what is
16
required of a police department. Now, if I remember
17
correctly, the study was done prior to the airport
18
being opened. And I'd like to just urge each of you
19
gentlemen to dig out'the copies of the study. I'd
20
like to urge each of you folks to try and obtain a copy
21
of the study, try to borrow a lending copy somewhere,
22
read what the professionals say so far as what is needed
23
in law enforcement and what is not needed in law enforce -
24
meat. And I guess above all, I'm going to just say that
25
there is only room for one police chief in a town.
I
1
`here's
only
one police chief at a
time,
and it has to
2 1
be that
way.
Politics can't enter
into
law enforcement.
Mt MR. BUTCHER: Mr. Mayor,, I don't believe at
4 this time that I'm encroaching on any of the citizens
5 that dant to speak, and I'll ask that if anyone does
6 want to speak, that they will take second fiddle for a
7 minute and let me present to you at this time, Chief
8
of
Police of Grapevine, James
Lilly,
to make a statement
9
to
you and submit himself to
you for
direct questions.
10 MR. LILLY: Thank you, Mr. Butcher. Mr. Mayor,
11 ladies and gentlemen of the council, I've been your
12 Chief of Police for nine years. I've worked real
13 closely with Mr. Floy Ezell. I've never been disrespect -
14 ful to you in any way, form, or fashion. You have never
15 given me any narrative, any written order, that I haven't
16 carried out to the fullest of my ability. I have no
17 bones andno ax to grind with you. The only reason
18 1 asked for money was not for myself, but for the
19 people of this community. It was not for me. 1 always
20 had the betterment of my community in mind. Therefore,
21 1 respectfully request to be reinstated as your Chief
22 of Police. And again, I've never been disrespectful to
23 this man, and I've carried out every order he has asked
24 me to do. And at this time I will turn it back over
gal to my attorney,
1
MR. BUTCHER: Do any members of the council
2
wish to pose a question to Mr. Lilly at this time?
3
MR. FLORENCE: I have got one question.
4
Mr. Lilly, after -- a hypothetical question. In the
5
event you were reinstated would
, you be able to work with
6
Mr. Ezell after this in light of what has gone on?
7
MR. LILLY: Would you repeat that, please?
8
MR, FLORENCE: Again, a hypothetical question:
9
in the event you were reinstated as Chief of Police,
10
would the things that have gone on since your dismissal,
11
would you be able to work under Mr. Ezell and recognize
12
the fact that he is your superior?
13
MR. LILLY: Mr. Florence, I can work with
14
anybody, and I have worked with Mr. Ezell nineY ears
15
and I can work with him nine more.
16
MR. BUTCHER: Is there any other questions,
17
Mr, Florence?
18 Mr. Mayor, we have had quite a to-do about
19 ground rules here tonight. We have had a meeting on
20 ground rules, we have reached some decisions, and for
21 the benefit of this council and this group of citizens
22 here, I can agree with you and the audience that no one
23 wants to see this town destroyed or this community re -
24 fleeted upon. You have additional elections coming up.
25 I, foremost, do not want to see and do not intend to see
1 reflection cast on Mr. Lilly without the battle being
2 waged. At this time, I will submit to
you a set of
3 ground rules that I will abide by and that I will go alo
4 with. Number one, that this meeting be continued for
5 a period of thirty days to forty days depending on the
6 time element necessary. Number two, that I, joined by
7 r. Lilly, appoint two disinterested citizens of the
8 City of Grapevine and that the City Council appoint two
9 disinterested citizens of the City of Grapevine; that
10
those four disinterested citizens of Grapevine agree and
11
appoint a fifth person, as citizens of Grapevine, to
12
find the facts on the charges before this board as
13
lodged by Mr. Ezell; that that committee, upon completio;
14
of its investigation, will deliver to the City Attorney
15
a copy of that investigation; that they deliver me a
16
copy of that investigation so that I may have ample
17
opportunity to study it and file the proper answers and
18
questions to the charges that have been lodged here; tha
19
this committee in an open public hearing, rake their
20
direct report to the City Council on confirmation or
21
otherwise concerning these charges;, and that I be given
22
the right to continue my interrogation in open public
23
meetings so that we can at one time come to the end of
24
e line concerning Mr. Lilly and this particular charge
25
or charges. During this interim time, I would suggest
R
18 MR. BOYLE: Council could always reopen it,
19 or at any tine, even after closing it, could ask questions
20 of Mr. Butcher or anybody else in the audience relative
21 to that matter. it couldn't be -- closing the hearing
22 wouldn't be a limitation on the council having'a: dis-
23 cussion with any of the parties in the audience relative
24 to the .proposal.
25 11 MR, BUTCHER: Mr, Mayor, I propose -- I don't
1
that James Lilly remain as the Chief of Police of Grape -
2
vine and that he be on vacation during this investigation
3
so that it will not be hindered, so that it will not
4
be tampered with, and so that he will get a fair and
5
impartial coiTinitment from five citizens of this city and
6
that this chamber, this council, can be entitled to an
7
impartial rendition of the facts on these charges. Those
8
are my propositions and proposals for the ground rules
9
for carrying this hearing further.
10
MAYOR TATE: Mr. City Attorney, at what point
11
in time does the public hearing need to be closed?
12
IMR, BOYLE: At such time as everyone has made
13
their statement and council makes the decision to close
14
the public hearing.
15
MAYOR TATE: Should that be done before they
16
consider the proposal by Mr. Butcher or any other proposal
17
or discussions that we may have?
18 MR. BOYLE: Council could always reopen it,
19 or at any tine, even after closing it, could ask questions
20 of Mr. Butcher or anybody else in the audience relative
21 to that matter. it couldn't be -- closing the hearing
22 wouldn't be a limitation on the council having'a: dis-
23 cussion with any of the parties in the audience relative
24 to the .proposal.
25 11 MR, BUTCHER: Mr, Mayor, I propose -- I don't
T
1 intend to cut off anybody, but I propose that the
2 council accept my proposition, and I propose that this
3 council,, ,after these folks, whoever may want to be heard
4 be heard, that this meeting be closed but continued under
5 my proposal to the council.
6 MAYOR TATE: Thank you, Mr. Butcher,
7 MR, DUNN: Mr. City Attorney, at what point
8 would we, if we had any questions we would like to ask
911 Mr. Butcher with regard to this proposal for clarifica-
tion . be able to
11 i1 do this?
12 FSR, BOYLE: You can do it right,now or anytime
13 MR, DUNN: Mr. Butcher, this report from the
14 committee that you're proposing, do you propose that
15 prior to submitting the report to the council, that it
16 be given in writing or a report be made to Mr. Lilly?
17 MR. BUTCHER: I propose that the report be
18 given to the City Attorney and a report given to me.
19 MR. DUNNs Okay.
20 MR. BUTCHER: And I have no objections to
21 the complete written report being given to the council
22 prior to the meeting because I will have a copy. 2
23 will have an opportunity to answer anything that the
24 committee comes up with, and the meeting will then be
25 open, and this report will be read so that this group
1 of citizens will know what this committee has said.
2 MR. DUNN: Okay. I believe your statement
3 said that this committee would make a direct report on
4 confirmation or nonconfirmation.
5
MR. BUTCHER: Concerning confirmation or -non -
6
confirmation of the dismissal.
7
MR. DUNN: So would this be, in effect, a
8
recommendation, or would this be -- and I'm not trying
9
to get involved in semantics, I just want to know
10
exactly what we're talking about.
11
MR. BUTCHER: My recommendation is brought up
12
for the purpose of doing two things: apprising James
13
Lilly, primarily, of the charges against him, and
14
substantiating any of those charges that may be sub -
15
stantiated or reporting to this council that they can
16
not substantiate them or that they can. Now, this
17
report should be complete. It should be full, and it
18
should give the council their facts upon which to act.
19
It will be, in qty opinion, a complete, impartial, unbiase ,
20
report prepared by five citizens. I suggest, and if I
21
go along with these ground rules, would insist, that I
22
appoint two of them with the help of Mr. Lilly. He's
23
the man that's answering the charges.
24
MR. DUNN: Yes, I'm not debating any of that.
25
I'M just trying to get clarification.
1
R. BUTCHERt I just sure don't want any more
2
misunderstanding, Mr. Dunn.
3
MR DUNN•®
That s what Ir m trying to get at,
,I
4
and I think you have explained it adequately. Thank you.
5
MR, OLIVER: One question, please, ter. Butcher,
6
MR. BUTCHER: Yes.
7
MR, OLIVER: In this committee, if we do
8
decide to go along with this, would this scope be
9
limited only to those charges, as you call them, that
10
were alleged tonight?
11
MR. BUTCHER: I would hope that they would
12
be a complete investigation of the charges. Now, if
13
Mr. Ezell has more charges --
14
MR. OLIVER: trell now, wait a minute, I'm
15
saying if it's going to be an investigation, it should
16
be a thorough one. And I'm saying if anything else
17
comes up, it should also be brought out.
18
MR. BUTCHER: I'll go along with that. I'll
19
sure agree with that. Just hold an open investigation
20
on James Lilly, and wherever the ball bounces, we'll
21
sing the tune whether it's a manager or assistant or
22
a councilman or --
23
NR. OLIVER: I wasn't talking about anybody.
24
MR. BUTCHER: I wasn't, either.
25
MR. OLIVER: hell, yes, you were.
M
1
MR. BUTCHER: No --
2
MR. OLIVER: I think you were.
3
MR, BUTCHER: If you're going to have a
4
complete investigation, and there is a charge of in -
5
subordination -- and I'm just using this, Por. Ezell,
6
I'm not being reflective. If there is a charge of
7
insubordination, then, I think the reasons for such
8
insubordination, if there be any, be included, and that
9
would affect other people.
10
MR. OLIVER: Yeah, I can understand that, but
11
I'm just saying if anything else is found other than
12
the charges, I think it should also be included in that.
13
MR. BUTCHER: Well, I think you're entitled
14
to know it. I just want to have --
15
MR. OLIVER: Yes, I'm saying that everything
16
that has been found out should be reported.
17
MR. BUTCHER: Roll the ball.. no objection to
18
that.
19
MR. FLORENCE: I've got a question. You
20
weren't real clear on this point. You mentioned that
21
you would expect the right, of course, to be able to
22
ask questions, et cetera, Are you talking about being
23
present at this hearing that this investigative committee
24
might call and taking part in that as far as asking
Al
25
questions, or are you talking about upon submission of
1 the final report to the council, in effect, conducting
1
2 another investigation at that time?
3 MR. BUTCHER: Primarily, Mr. Florence, I had
4
intended to work with fir.
Boyle on the format
of the
5
investigation and if they
held open meetings
or hearings,
6
I certainly would want to
attend, and I think
Mr. Boyle
7
would because the city is
at stake as much as
James
811 Lilly.
911 MR. rLORENCE: Well, I ,was just trying to
oil clearthe point whether
11 II MR. BUTC11rR: Mr. Moore or myself will attend.
12
Gary Moore, out of
my office,
is here, and I failed to
13
introduce him, but
one of us
would attend.
14
MR, OLIVER:
If it's a
public meeting of
15
this committee, on your
committee
investigation, is it
16
going to bet the committee
going
to be allowed to
17
investigate privately,
or are you
going to be attending
18
every committee meeting
that is being held?
1911
MR, BUTCHER:
No, sir,
Mr. Oliver, there's
=I one thing I don't
all down here to talk to Jobn JonesSusie,
all - have a heating and -they call Mr. Ezell to clarify
23 his statements, then I will probably find time to be
24 there. But for their down--the-street investigation,
25 1 won't. But at their open hearings where they will call
1
him to make statements -- now, if they go by and talk
2
to him and want some records, I'm not going. But when
3
they have a hearing concerning himp then I expect to be
ere.
5
MR. OLIVER: Even if they want it to be a
6
private hearing?
7
MR. BUTCHER: well, you're getting into
8
part of the ground rules that I haven't proposed at this
9
time.
10
MR. OLIVER: well, I'm interested in those
11
ground les.
12
MR. BUTCHER: I want you to be interested in
13
them because I don't want any misunderstandings. If
14
they have a public hearing on this, I want to be there
15
beside Mr. Boyle.
16
MR. OLIVER: Who will decide --
17
MR. BUTCHER: Well, I think the committee --
18
we're going to appoint five disinterested -- and if they
19
hold a hearing, I want to be there.
20
MR. OLIVER: Well, I just wanted to -- that
21
answers my question.
22
MR. BUTCHER: And if they want to go pick up
23
all of the information and compile it, no, I don't --
24
MR, OLIVER: I'm just saying if they want to
25
talk to Air. Ezell themselves without anyone else there,
7
1
they will have the right to do so.
2
MR, BUTCHER: Yes, sir, I wouldn't have any
3
objection because I'm going to have that right, too,
somewhere down the line.
5
MR. OLIVER: All right.
6
MR, BOYIFs Mr., Oliver, I might add in
7
relation to that, what's been discussed, what's been
8
generally agreed on, is that Mr. Butcher and I would
9
meet and we would discuss an agreeable set of ground
10
rules representative to the committee. I think that
11
will be generally agreeable to the council and to
12
Mr. Lilly and to Mr. Butcher, That's what is being
13
contemplated.
14
FAR.
BUTCHER: Anyone else have a question?
15
Mr. Mayor, you have my proposal.
16
MAYOR TATE: Motion is in order, please.
17
MR. OLIVER: I move we close the public
18
hearing.
19
MR. DUNK: Second the motion.
20
MAYOR TATE: Any discussion? All in favor?
21
All opposed? Thank you.. Motion prevails, the public
22
hearing is now closed.
23
MR. BUTCHER: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, I would
24
like the privilege of saying a word to these folks who
25
have gathered here tonight.
1 Ladies and gentlemen, the first thing I want to do i
2 to commend you for being interested in your civic affairs,
3 your civic duty, coming before this council. of course,
4 I appreciate your supporting of Chief Lilly. I want to
5 tell you one thing, and I want you to understand. We
6 were not on agreement with ground rules when we began
7 this meeting. We are laying the ground rules that will
8 assure you, as citizens of Grapevine, that justice is
9 going to be done in the final hearing before this
10 body.
11 MAYOR TATEt Discussion is now in order.
12 AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I forgot something,
13 MR, BUTCHER: It's too late, we're closed.
®1 MAYOR TATE: The public hearing is closed.
15 I think eno gh's been said, and I think we're all --
16 1123 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: This is about
17 another personnel matter within the city.
18 14AYOR TATE: Well, that's not within the
19 scope, Let's get this one taken care of at this time.
20 If you have another matter, we'll request that it be
21 set on another council for another date, and we'll hear
22 you at that time,
Wil Discussion is noworder.
24
PAIR.
OLIVERt
Mr,
Mayor,
I'd
like to say a
few
25
things. First
of all,
Mr.
Shirley
made
a statement
that
1 he }rind of felt that we were sitting up here in judgment
2 as a kangaroo court. I don't remember hardly any of the
3 Council members making any statements,That's m
4 opinion, and he has his. I also feel that Mr. Ezell
5 was clone a great injustice tonight. He is not the
6 man we're discussing) we ended up discussing him. That
7 was wrong. I can go along with the recommendation of
8 the attorney on this committee, and I think it would
9 be in the best interest possibly of the citizens of
al Grapevine to if :.. But there are two things
11 government, two basic elements, that exist. One is
12 authority, and one is power. Pio government at all is
13 possible, not even the most tentative, unless men obey
14 directions and regulations. One roan may obey another
15 either voluntarily or involuntarilyl either because he
16 recognizes the rights vested in the power of the man
W' that givesi ' orders because fearsthe
18 consequences which he may suffer if he disobeys. These
19 two modes of obedience correspond to the authority
20 and power of government. Authority elicits voluntary
21 complia.ncel power coerces it, or by threatening coercion,
22 implies involuntary obedience. Either one of these
23 can exist, either one by itself or together. But when
24 right is lacking, government is illegitimate, and it's
25 ineffective. And I think we need to be effective. And
97
1 we're trying to do what's right up here whether you think
Y 2 so or not. I've known a lot of you people out here for
3 a long time, and I'm real disappointed in you. I wish
4 you were as concerned over some other matters of the
5 city as you were over this. We need your help there,
6 too. Thank you, Mr. Mayor,
7 MAYOR TATE: Other discussions?
8 MR. DUNN: Mr. Mayor, I would like to make
9 a statement also at this time, and I'm not going to
10 get involved in any quibbling over any of the things
11 that were said tonight. I would simply like to say to
1211 the people who are gathered here that the City Council
H! does ., the work that is being done in th--t
14 different departments. We do appreciate the interest
15 of the citizens. I don't know that there is any one
16 of them up here who's up here for any personal gain or
17 for any personal power, It's good, and we enjoy, I think
18 at times, the recognition, but matters like this makes
19 it seem very insignificant. And I think what this boils
2011 down to is the intention of the Council in having this
Bill public hearing tonight, I cannot speak for the council
22 and don't propose to speak for the council, but I do
23 speak for myself. And I'm not being facetious when I
24 say that I don't understand some of the terminology that
25 was used here tonight. I don't understand what a kangar
1 court is. I insisted when there was some discussion
2 about this meeting, that I felt like the citizens of
3 Grapevine should be heard. I wanted to hear what they
4 had to say. I wanted to hear what Mr. Lilly had to say.
5 And if he had any comments or his representative, I was
6 not up here to make any attempt to prejudge him or any
7 of the facts. And I take it somewhat personally that
8 the charges have been made toward Tne that this is what
9 happened. we are not saying, I'm not saying, I don't
10 think anybody is saying here tonight that there is not --
11 there are no good things happening in the Police
12 Department, Please bear in mind that we're not
13 completely oblivious to what is going on in the community
14 of Grapevine. I take exception to some of the snide
15 remarks that were made concerning the city. You know,
16 this really is not fair. You talk about being fair
17 to Mr, Lilly, now, I think that's fine. But I think
18 you ought to be fair with the council also. Now, I'm
19
not opposed to this
idea of
a citizen committee,
and
20
none of my remarks
and none
of my questions were
intended
21 to try to cloud the issue. As I indicated to Mr. Butcher
22 I simply wanted a clarification that in working out the
23 procedures, there still needs to be some further clari£i-
24 cation. It personally, don't anticipate any problems
25 that can't be worked out. I would be more than happy to
1 hear the recommendations of the report of this committee
2 and take it under consideration. But I want you people
3 to know who are here tonight that the time that I have
4 taken the past few days talking with people, not only
5 about the election, but about this matter, was done
6 because I atm interested in the City of Grapevine. And
7 I really do take it personally that you say I'm not
8 acting that way up here as a councilman.
9 MAYOR TATE: Any further statements?
10 MR. DALTON: I think at this time -- I don't
11 think anything can be accomplished by continuing this thi
12 and making personal statements. I've been around a long
13 time, and I have personal feelings in this thing. I
14 take great pride in serving the city that I have lived
15 in for some thirty-three years. I do from time to time
16 take a very firm stand, and I will continue to do that.
17 I will do what I think is absolutely right, and I will
18 always serve with dignity and honesty. And if that
19 doesn't suit or serve the people that elected me, then,
20 I will wish to serve no more.
21 TATE: I Would like to say that I have
22 no desire to abridge the personal rights of any individual
23 certainly not a police officer. I have nothing personal
24 against Chief Lilly, and I hope he has nothing personal
25 against me. I, too, resent some of the statements that I
ft
Nil have been -: street,some things that are
r_ 2 being said about me. I understand the people don't know
3 all the facts; fir. Lilly apparently didn't know all the
facts, and I can appreciate his desire to know all o
5 the reasons. And I can appreciate the fact that under
6 these circumstances, all the reasons cannot be properly
7 discussed in this type of form and under the procedures
8 that we tried to set out. And for that reason, I can
9 go along with the proposal because I have -- I think that
10 I have the right to be fully informed. I think the
11 investigation that the committee made was not complete.
12 It found significant things that as a public official,
13 11 concern me., and I think that I should react with them,
01 1 think that I should be concerned with them, but I
think further investigation is in order, and I have no
1331 objections to it, If I had known at the time that we
17 started the investigation, that we had as many allega-
18 tions as we had during that investigation and that this
19 would have been the consequence, perhaps we would have
20 considered a citizens' committee or citizens' participa-
21 tion at that time. I think the people have a right to
22 know and everybody should have an opportunity to discuss
23 this thing, and I too, would be proud to hear the
24 recommendations of a citizens committee, but I would like
25 to think that I c -- if there is wrong, that I can
I
right it. If there is inefficiency, that I can make it
2
efficient; that I can demand to serve my office for the
3
purp<_:tee for which I campaigned and was elected, and that
4
was t -o try to keep the efficiency, to try to keep the
5
taxes as low as possible in this community, and to pro -
6
vide all kinds of city services to all citizens; not j,, -.s
7
they�Dung, not just the old; not just the rich, not just
8
the I have the best interests of this community in
9
mind, and I'm doing my best to serve the community. And I
10
think I have done a lot of things good for this com-
11
m-unitY. And I don't appreciate the statements that are
12
made. It would be very easy for me to come to my own
13
defense and say some things, but I haven't. I'm not
14
trying to claim Political gain or affect the election or
15
do anything to hurt anyone, and I hope that most of the
16
people realize that I haven't made any statements in the
17
press. I haven't done anything to try to publicly harm
18
Mr. Lilly. Perhaps part of this could have been avoided
19
tonight if we had known who his attorney was, and the
20
attorneys could have worked together and set out the
21
procedures. Unfortunately, that was not done, and I --
22
but I hope we've come a long way$ and we're probably at
23
the greatest -- at the threshold of the greatest era this
24
city will ever face. It's been a long time in coming;
25
wevve had a lot of disappointments 1 we've suffered throu I
1
problems in the past, but nothing is worth tearing this
2
town apart. And there is no question in ray mind what
3
would be the ultimate outcome if all the issues that are
24
by
4
being discussed in the scope of this proceeding were
5
actually aired. But I'm not for sure that that would
6
be_in the best interest of the community. There is
7
a lot of people here tonight, and I'm disappointed that
8
not more of them came forward and expressed their
9 opinion, but I can understand, There's a lot of
10 confusion, people do not understand what's going; on,
11 and I'm in agreement to try to correct that. And I
12 hope Mr. Lilly appreciates that, and hope his attorney
13 appreciates that, and I hope the people in this
24 community appreciate the fact that I'm not trying to
15 hide anything, and I'm willing to listen to this type
16 of report. I think it should be more inclusive than
17 the investigation that's already been made.
18 Any other statements? If not, a motion is
M11
20 MR. OLIVER: Mr, Mayor, I make a motion that
21 we accept Mr. Lilly's counsel, Mr. Butcher's compromise
22 and call for a committee, a citizens committee, two to
23
be
appointed by
Mr.
Lilly himself and two to be
appointed
24
by
this Council
and
one to be appointed by the
four
al members of that committee, to investigate the allegations
a
MR. DUNN: I second the motion.
MAYOR FATE: Further discussion?
MR. FLORENCE: Mr. Mayor, being a new member,
I'm not very familiar with your procedures here, but
should that notion include that the City Attorney and
Mr. Lilly's attorney are to wok out something in
little more detail and --
MR. BOYLE: Yes, that is correct.
MAYOR TATE: Do I need to amend my motion?
MR. BOYLE: Yes, right.
MAYOR TATE: Mr. Dunn, you seconded the
motion and amendment?
MR. DUNK: Yes,
MAYOR TATE: We have a motion and amendment
that's been seconded. Any further discussion? All in
favor of the motion? All opposed? Motion carries.
- meeting
CouncilCity . i ' •and
adjourned o'clock• f
I
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
THE STATE OF TEXAS }
COUNTY OF TARRAUT
This is to certify that I, Lynnell E. Brooks, Certified
Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for Tarrant County,
Texas, reported in shorthand the proceedings had at the time
and place set forth in the caption hereof, and that the above
and foregoing 103 pages contain a full, true, and correct
transcript of said proceedings.
GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICr on this day
of April, A.D., 1976.
Brooks,Lynnell E,
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
THE STATE OF TEXAS }
COUNTY OF TARRAUT
This is to certify that I, Lynnell E. Brooks, Certified
Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for Tarrant County,
Texas, reported in shorthand the proceedings had at the time
and place set forth in the caption hereof, and that the above
and foregoing 103 pages contain a full, true, and correct
transcript of said proceedings.
GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICr on this day
of April, A.D., 1976.
Brooks,Lynnell E,